Dangerous Cult Leader Calls Epileptic “Possessed”
January 13th, 20102,000 Years Later, his Followers are Still At It
I just saw the video of Pat Robertson saying Haiti was under a curse because Haitians had made a pact with the devil. Commenters on Drudgebart.tv were generally furious with him.
Someone explain this to me. I’m not sure Robertson has both oars in the water, but it is undeniably true that the prevailing religion in Haiti is demon worship, better known as voodoo. God exists. Satan exists. God is the good one. Satan is the bad one. What, exactly, is wrong with what Robertson said? I can understand atheists and voodoo practitioners getting upset, but what about ordinary Americans? Most of us claim to be Christians, and that means we believe in God and Satan.
Why do people think it’s an insult to say someone is under a curse? How is this different from saying a person has cancer or that he needs to have his brake lights fixed so he doesn’t have an accident? When people are in trouble, you speak up, don’t you? Isn’t that the kindest thing you can do?
I’m fairly sure the largest ethnic group at my church is made up of Haitians. I’ll bet none of them are mad at Pat Robertson today. They probably tell their relatives the same thing all the time, trying to help them get free. Christians have historically pumped gigantic amounts of money and manpower into Haiti, and they’re heavily involved in the current disaster response. You can’t say that about random Internet commenters who showed up today to bash Pat Robertson. He’s amassing donations and providing humanitarian aid. What are the commenters doing?
Mention Satan or sin, and get smacked down. Nothing new there. If anything, the venomous and irrational responses are evidence that Christians are right.
When did we stop believing in Satan and demons? It’s so sad. Most American Christians think Jesus was a really nice guy–probably gay–who preached unconditional love and was basically insane. In reality, he was a warrior who battled Satan and planted the seed that doomed his kingdom.
Mindless tolerance was not his message. There is a difference between forgiveness and tolerance. He condemned sin, and he condemned all religions other than his own. He would condemn voodoo and santeria and other forms of demon worship, in terms much stronger than those used by Pat Robertson.
Jesus talked about Satan day in and day out. He knew he was real. He had conversations with demons, including Satan himself. He cast them out of people who would be misdiagnosed as blind, deaf, and epileptic today. If Jesus were here in the flesh, the Drudgebart commenters would hate him as much as they hate Pat Robertson.
January 13th, 2010 at 5:06 PM
Mainstream America is not really Christian. Most people who would classify themselves as Christian are more “culturally Christian” than actually Christian (it is almost like people who say their Irish of Irish American – baloney, their parents of grandparent were but they are not).
The American sensibility is “diversity” and “non-judgmentalism” and “relativism” and PC. You can believe anything you want as long as you don’t believe it enough to make you act “different” of behave so as to offend or upset anyone else.
January 13th, 2010 at 5:44 PM
Stuff happens, God had nothing to do with it anymore than the middle east being full of stupid, gullible, people.
Pat Robertson needs to stop passing judgements and start offering prayers for those poor souls smashed flat under concrete.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:01 PM
Why do you say he’s passing judgment? Where did he pass judgment? Where did he condemn?
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He mentioned a regrettable mistake the Haitian nation has made, and he has reached out his hand in compassion. How does that conflict with anything Jesus said?
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Where did you get the idea that he’s not praying for Haiti? How can you possibly think he isn’t praying? It’s part of his job as a minister. Do you think he suddenly stopped today?
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If God has nothing to do with misfortune, why do you suggest prayer? Why would a God who isn’t involved in earthly matters listen to prayer?
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These things DO happen because of sin and rebellion. The Bible makes that extremely clear. Why would you suggest that has changed? Where is your evidence?
January 13th, 2010 at 6:05 PM
If I had to guess, Robertson stepped in it when he said they were under a curse. The idea that a nation (or person) has earned punishment from God because of their bad behavior is not consistent with the whole of scripture. To say that a man loses his wife and family in a car accident because of sin in his life seems mean spirited (not to mention contrary to scripture). The truth is, none of us deserve anything good, and should praise God every day for what little tribulation we do experience.
As for the way Jesus is portrayed by many christians, I agree totally! To quote my pastor, “Jesus was not a white, blue-eyed, gay hippie”.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:07 PM
The biggest problem is that the story itself appears to be apocryphal. If you’re going to imply – STRONGLY – that the Haitians brought this calamity on themselves, you had better have some ironclad evidence of what you claim. I have seen none. I also call hypocrisy on Robertson. he made his own deal with the devil, and the devil’s name was Charles Taylor.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:07 PM
“The idea that a nation (or person) has earned punishment from God because of their bad behavior is not consistent with the whole of scripture.”
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The Old Testament says the Jews were exiled to Babylon because of sin. It says the nations that divide Israel will be punished. There are many other Biblical examples of nations being punished for sin. How can you say it’s not consistent with scripture?
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Did I imagine the ten plagues of Egypt?
January 13th, 2010 at 6:10 PM
“The biggest problem is that the story itself appears to be apocryphal.”
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The strange story he told about a pact with the devil sounds nutty, but that’s beside the point. Voodoo IS the main religion in Haiti, and it is definitely demon worship. In the Bible, peoples, including the Jews, were punished for idolatry. Why would Haiti be different? Can you cite a Biblical passage or chapter in support of your argument?
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If I started worshiping demons, I would expect terrible things to happen to me. It’s not wrong to expect similar results for others.
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When did discouraging demon worship become a bad thing? This is incredible.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:11 PM
After re-reading my last comment, I feel the phrase “earned punishment from God” should actually be “received punishment from God”. The truth is, we have all earned God’s wrath, only the blood of Jesus can save us from it.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:24 PM
What makes the inhabitants of Haiti a “people?” There are many Christians there, too, and they have died in great numbers along with the idolaters.
Can you cite a Biblical passage in support of a curse on Haiti? How about a passage that states that ALL people in ANY country where idolatry is rampant fall under a curse? That’s what Robertson needs, unless he is now claiming to be a prophet with the authority to speak on behalf of Almighty God.
Let me be clear: I do not know whether Haiti is under a curse. And no one here has said that “discouraging demon worship” is a “bad thing.” I do argue, however, that nobody should publicly make such a SPECIFIC claim about a SPECIFIC country unless they can back it up. To do so discredits the name of Jesus Christ before the whole world.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:25 PM
Agudath Israel, which makes the Orthodox Union seem like religious slackers, just sent out an email blast promoting the American Red Cross to get relief supplies to Haiti.
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IDF search and rescue team is on the way.
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IsraAID and the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee are funneling Jewish communal support into Haiti, and the American Jewish World Service is collecting donations for its Haiti Earthquake Relief Fund at http://www.ajws.org/haitiearthquake
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Hurricane Katrina happened right after W strong-armed Israel into giving up Gaza, hitting W’s and Condi’s Gulf of Mexico back yard. http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46178 Ariel Sharon has been in a coma for years.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:29 PM
“The Old Testament says the Jews were exiled to Babylon because of sin. It says the nations that divide Israel will be punished. There are many other Biblical examples of nations being punished for sin. How can you say it’s not consistent with scripture?”
We have to be careful how we read the Bible, especially when it comes the issue of translation and phrases. I believe we read “punishment” differently than it was meant. The issue of Israel is a perfect example – Did God “punish” (as in hurt them in retribution) or did He correct them (as in allow hard things in order to turn them away from sin). It might seem like splitting hairs, but it makes a big difference in the way we relate to God.
I try not to say or do anything that portrays God as being anything but a loving father. As a loving father myself, I sometimes allow my kids to experience hard (even painful) things if I know they will grow spiritually through it. Sometimes my kids do things I told them not to do and they experience natural consequences; I’m never happy they got hurt, but I do try to help them learn from those mistakes.
The scriptures say, “…He makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.” In regard to Robertson’s comment, I simply think it’s a bit arrogant to claim he knows why there was an earthquake in Haiti.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:34 PM
“”Let me be clear: I do not know whether Haiti is under a curse. And no one here has said that ‘discouraging demon worship’ is a ‘bad thing.’ I do argue, however, that nobody should publicly make such a SPECIFIC claim about a SPECIFIC country unless they can back it up.
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It sounds like you know nothing at all about Haiti. You can spend three minutes Googling and learn how prevalent voodoo is there. Maybe this is something that is common knowledge in Miami but unknown elsewhere.
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“Can you cite a Biblical passage in support of a curse on Haiti?”
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I cited numerous examples. You have yet to cite anything suggesting God will not punish a nation.
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As for knowing why Haiti got the earthquake, here’s a good rule of thumb. When you’re doing something you know God hates, and something bad happens, it’s a good idea to stop. Whether idolatry caused the earthquake or not, it certainly could have, and it was a bad move.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:37 PM
“Did God ‘punish’ (as in hurt them in retribution) or did He correct them (as in allow hard things in order to turn them away from sin)”
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Semantics. If God can “correct” Israel with ruin, he can “correct” Haiti with an earthquake.
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Your harmless God is unscriptural. This is the God who rained burning sulfur on two cities and who commanded the Hebrews to kill their enemies, including old women, babies, pets, and livestock.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:39 PM
Concerning finances, Arab Senator George Mitchell has been threatening Israel. http://www.israpundit.com/2008/?p=19685#more-19685
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Maybe the US housing crisis is divine karma for thwarting natural growth in Israel?
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A little bit of recalling “Those who bless you will be blessed” may be in order. Obama is steering US policy increasing toward a faith that brags about “loving death”. Proverbs 8 notes that those that love death hate God. Americans are too busy watching sports, porn and soaps to demand the State Department that ostensibly represents them abide by American will. Qui tacet consentit — silence implies consent. We will be asked why we allowed our government to ally itself with death-lovers and did so little to stop it.
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Killing Amalek, participating in the aggressive eradication of evil, is an eternal positive command. It can’t be accomplished passively. God wants us to join Him in destroying evil. Until we’re resolved to doing that, it’s a lesson we are refusing to learn and ample justification for not “graduating” to the next level of communion with Him.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:45 PM
“Maybe the US housing crisis is divine karma for thwarting natural growth in Israel?”
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Well, we also have convenience abortion, the celebration of arrogance as a virtue, greed, backsliding, every kind of sexual excess and perversion, hardness of heart, all types of idolatry, contempt for our elders…
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The ice is thin, and we’re tap-dancing.
January 13th, 2010 at 6:57 PM
“It sounds like you know nothing at all about Haiti.”
The “specific claim” I referred to is the claim that Haiti is under a curse, not that Voodoo is rampant there. I don’t know that, you don’t know that, and Pat Robertson doesn’t know that.
“I cited numerous examples. You have yet to cite anything suggesting God will not punish a nation.”
Actually, you cited no examples with respect to Haiti (naturally; there was no Haiti when the Bible was written). But more to the point, you cited no examples that are so broad-based that they necessitate the view that Haiti is under a curse. I believe you will find that in each example you refer to, God spoke with actual authority through a prophet. Do you claim to be one? Does Robertson? I certainly don’t.
“You have yet to cite anything suggesting God will not punish a nation.”
I don’t have to. I didn’t claim that God will not punish a nation. You are confusing me with another poster. I claim only that I cannot know, nor can Pat Robertson, nor can you, whether this earthquake is such a punishment, and that making such public statements without proof is discrediting to our shared faith, and to our Savior. It also treads on very dangerous ground by claiming to know the mind of God without actual authority.
January 13th, 2010 at 7:07 PM
“The ‘specific claim’ I referred to is the claim that Haiti is under a curse, not that Voodoo is rampant there.”
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If you think it’s possible for a nation to worship demons as its primary religion without coming under a curse, you have a very peculiar view of Christianity.
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“Actually, you cited no examples with respect to Haiti ”
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The Bible doesn’t mention me specifically, either. I am still subject to the principles of the spirit realm, as is Haiti. This is obvious. You argued that it wasn’t possible for ANY nation to come under a curse through idolatry, so my citations of other nations was apt. Now you’re trying to narrow it to Haiti, which would be a bad argument even if you weren’t backpedaling.
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“I didn’t claim that God will not punish a nation. ”
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Here is what you said: “How about a passage that states that ALL people in ANY country where idolatry is rampant fall under a curse?”
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“I cannot know, nor can Pat Robertson, nor can you, whether this earthquake is such a punishment”
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No, but we can know that Haitians have invited punishment on a broad scale, and it is reasonable to suspect that their incredible idolatry is a likely reason, and even if it’s not the reason, it will surely cause other problems, so Robertson is right to point the danger out.
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“It also treads on very dangerous ground by claiming to know the mind of God without actual authority.”
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If your argument made any sense at all, no one could warn anyone about sin unless they were mentioned by name in the Bible. The Bible IS authority, and it is proper to apply general principles to specific examples. The really “dangerous ground” is an unwillingness to speak up when people who are precious to God are doing themselves great harm through egregious sin.
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Time to make room for a new commenter.
January 14th, 2010 at 12:11 AM
Seems to me that you are making good sense Steve.
January 14th, 2010 at 3:10 AM
Pat Robertson is on the same level as the mullahs who teach hatred of the west and Christians. He should stop talking about “curses” and pray for all the Haitians in their time of need. In fact he should shut up completely. Every time he opens his mouth he just shows his stupidity and bigotry!
January 14th, 2010 at 10:08 AM
“here’s a good rule of thumb. When you’re doing something you know God hates, and something bad happens, it’s a good idea to stop”
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True indeed. An even wiser course is to stop whatever it is that God hates before something bad happens (or better yet, don’t even start it in the first place).