Joel Must be Proud
December 1st, 2009Am I Dreaming a Dream?
I am listening to a Shavuot sermon by Rabbi Ira Brawer of Ayts Chayim Messianic Synagogue. I have been invited to attend this Saturday, and I can’t wait. Don’t ask me why; I just can’t wait.
It’s so weird hearing a Jew talk about Shavuot as a charismatic Christian would. To Jews, Shavuot is the day God gave Moses the Torah. To Christians, it’s the day God gave man the Holy Spirit, writing the Torah on man’s heart. We see the first Shavuot as a shadow of the one that occurred on Pentecost after the resurrection. It’s odd to hear a Jew who believes the same thing.
Aaron likes to call Messianics “Christians of Jewish birth,” but they are different from ordinary Christians. They don’t have their roots in the Christian church. Their roots are in Judaism. They are Jews (“people of Jewish descent,” whatever) who continue to practice Judaism but believe Yeshua is their promised messiah. It’s not really the same as being a Baptist or a Catholic. You can’t call these people Protestants, the way we generally refer to non-Catholic Christians. They’re in a class by themselves.
I know it’s not very likely the Orthodox would respect the Messianic brand of Judaism, even if Yeshua were not part of it. But it’s more like Judaism than anything else.
I guess the reason I find this exciting is that I have been around Jews since I was three years old, yet I have never known one with whom I could cross the bridge of faith. There was always a “middle wall” of separation between us. This was true even of close friends. It’s wonderful to see Jews I can relate to with less restraint.
Actually, my ninth-grade algebra teacher was a major babe, and she was Messianic. I should have made her wait a few years so I could marry her. She was only six years older than me. We could have made it work! Maybe I could have gotten her to change those D-minuses she gave me.
These guys are probably going to start having a big impact on Christianity, because their knowledge of Judaism gives them insights the rest of us can only have by direct inspiration of God.
It’s wonderful. It’s like listening to Perry Stone or Robert Morris, except this guy is talking about Judaism from the inside.
The Old Testament foreshadows New Testament events in ways that are mind-blowing, and the Messianics must be more aware of it than anyone.
Jewish holy-rollers. How can you beat that?
December 2nd, 2009 at 11:01 AM
Can’t wait to hear what you think.
December 2nd, 2009 at 9:43 PM
My in-laws are Messianic Jews…from the other side of the equation. (They were Christians first, and then decided to become Jewish…yes, I know that’s silly. You have no idea.)
Anyway, once again, they can be just as petty and spiteful as the rest of the human race. Try not to grant them supernatural powers. I bet they put their bekeshe on, one sleeve at a time.
December 3rd, 2009 at 11:29 PM
Someday we will see the whole elephant at once I suppose.
December 4th, 2009 at 9:28 AM
I finally read a very long comment about Jewish objections to Messianic Judaism, and I decided to delete it because it violated my rule against arguments over whether Judaism or Christianity is correct. That rule is not going away. I’m sorry if I offended anyone.
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Non-Messianics believe Jesus was not the Messiah, and they believe Messianics are not Jews. I acknowledge this.
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I will continue using the term “Messianic Jew” until non-Messianics come up with a realistic alternative that isn’t a yard long. I am happy to cooperate, but the burden of finding the new terminology is not going to be dropped on my shoulders. Jews themselves have failed to define the word “Jew” in a way Gentiles (or even Jewish courts) can grasp and apply. I am not going to presume to succeed where they have failed.
December 4th, 2009 at 2:55 PM
How about this for nomenclature: use capital M when referring to those who believe the messiah=Jesus=God and use lower-case m for those who don’t. EVERY SINGLE ORTHODOX JEW is messianic.
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Writing in ways that hint or suggest that Orthodox Jews aren’t messianic is a lie. There is NO way around that. Read #12 of the 13 principles codified by Maimonides: http://www.mesora.org/13principles.html
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My statement above is not an argument about the correctness of Judaism or Christianity. It is a desire for factual correctness. Orthodox Jews ARE messianic… just not the messiah you claim fulfilled the criteria.
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If you aren’t prepared to write that you understand clearly that Orthodox Jews ARE messianic, too, there is no truth left to be had here. There is an explicit positive commandment from Exodus 23:7 to distance oneself from falsehood. Jews may juggle bacon as long as they don’t eat it, but they are positively proscribed from stating a lie.
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Refusing to confirm the assertion that Orthodox Jews and Orthodox Judaism are 100% messianic is a total and complete lie. There is no wiggle room. Any preacher who would assert that Orthodox Judaism isn’t messianic is also a liar.
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Deleting contrary data is a intellectually dangerous habit in both global warming and scripture.
December 4th, 2009 at 2:59 PM
Another point, Orthodox Jews believe that Jews who believe in Jesus ARE Jews, just mistaken and no longer practicing Judaism just as we believe that Jews who convert to Buddhism are Jews, but no longer practicing Judaism and just as Jews who become atheist are Jews. All can become baalei tshuvah and be welcomed in any Orthodox synagogue.
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Your refusal to qualify statements is disturbing and arguably perpetuating falsehood.
December 4th, 2009 at 3:32 PM
Give me a short, accurate, non-argumentative term other than “non-Messianic” for Jews who do not think Jesus is the messiah. If the Orthodox can’t come up with such a term, how am I supposed to do it? I think I’ve already established a practice of using the capital M for “Messianic.”
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I’m very always eager to get your input, but I can’t bear the responsibility of cleansing it of anti-missionary boilerplate. I don’t write missionary blog posts, and I’ve deleted tons of comments aimed at proselytizing or Jews or changing their minds, so it’s fair to ban anti-missionary material.
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I think some perspective is in order. If you had a blog or forum for Orthodox Jews, and you wrote daily about the reasons why you’re sure Jesus isn’t the Messiah, would I show up and post argument? Would you delete posts saying Jesus is not the Messiah to keep from offending Christians? I wouldn’t think of asking.
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Refusing to confirm an assertion cannot be a lie. A lie is an affirmative assertion. Everyone knows Jews believe a Messianic Age is coming. Christians believe it, too. We just disagree on who will be the emcee.
December 4th, 2009 at 3:51 PM
If I was to call you non-messianic, that would be false and worthy of your righteous response. It’s that simple.
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I gave you a simple workaround. Use capitalization. It is normal to distinguish between the words god and God. No harder to distinguish between messianic and Messianic.
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Dismissing what I write as “boilerplate” while asserting that the writings of a “rabbi” (ordained by nobody qualified) who “gets it” is insulting. I suspect that Brawer knows less Hebrew than C-student Al Gore understands the science in his passion.
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Once we equate passion and feeling with truth, we’re on very thin theological ice.
December 4th, 2009 at 4:00 PM
Where did I say “gets it”?
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I think I’ve been using the big M for quite a while. Maybe you should start calling Messianics “Yeshuists” or something.
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I would have left your information about Brawer alone, but for the anti-missionary boilerplate. I don’t rewrite comments that go over the line. It’s an asymmetric responsibility; many commenters, each putting in a little time. One blogger, putting in a lot of time. I don’t accept the burden of rewriting comments to fit my established policies.
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I call Rabbi Brawer “Rabbi” because it’s what he calls himself, and I don’t like getting involved too heavily in intramural squabbles about nomenclature. I call Reverend Al Sharpton “Reverend,” too, even though he has no church, preaches hate, and probably has no idea what’s in the Bible. You know what I think of the cult of Mormonism, but I would still call a Mormon pastor “Pastor,” if it were in his title.