Dodging the Dealers
September 17th, 2009Where do You Put the Anchor?
My disgust over my experiences with car dealers has driven me to broaden my pickup search to the used market. I got fed up with used trucks because the asking prices I had seen were just plain stupid, but given the intransigence of the Ford dealer I tried to reason with, maybe Craigslist isn’t a bad option.
I wanted a relatively small truck. Half-ton. I’m not all that eager to maneuver a tank through Miami traffic. I have no idea how you get a big truck into Miami’s miniature parking spaces. But there are some deals on bigger trucks, and as much as I hate the idea, I can get diesel, with all of its advantages. I found some F250s, but everyone says the Ford diesels are an abomination, so I wrote them off, and I’ve been looking at Chevy and Dodge. I found a monstrous white Dodge with a 6.7-liter Cummins, for $19,000. It has around 75,000 miles on it, but the overhaul interval on these things is 350,000, so I think I could get my money’s worth out of it. Also, people are reporting 18 miles per gallon on these tanks, with excellent acceleration.
Here are the problems. First, it’s huge. We’ve already covered that. Second, there is no warranty. I’d have to buy one. If I bought a warranty, I’d probably have to leave the emissions crap on the truck, and it looks like this garbage is the only thing that can kill the engine. Third, it’s a Dodge, so it was probably put together by monkeys. They have the worst fit and finish in the universe. I have never owned a Mopar product, but the ones I have ridden in were a lot like what you would expect Chinese cars to be like. Fourth, I have a neurotic fear about running out of diesel while looking for a station that sells it. I should also note that it’s a six-cylinder, which makes repairs cheaper but probably makes it rough.
If I took off the emissions stuff, I would have no engine warranty. On the other hand, if I took off the emissions stuff, I would probably never need an engine warranty. Hard choice.
The specs on this thing are like something out of a science fiction movie. It will pull an aircraft carrier on a trailer. It will accelerate better than most cars. It gets better mileage than my Thunderbird. You can put a the weight of the Washington Monument in the bed.
Unless I abused it, you would expect it to last nearly until my grandchildren died. It’s pretty ridiculous.
It’s way, WAY cheaper than the new trucks I’ve been looking at.
It has pimp rims. What is it with people?
Maybe I’ll go take a look at it. I fear it would be like driving a bus. Depending on how cheap insurance is, I suppose I could hold onto the T-bird for a while, for city driving.
Or I could drop the whole idea and become a regular U-Haul customer.
September 17th, 2009 at 10:28 AM
depending on the age, diesels have little or no smog equipment. I have friends who have put over 450,000 miles on their Ford diesels with no problems, although any of the new turbocharged diesels have more problems than the older non turbo diesels.
September 17th, 2009 at 11:03 AM
There was a comparison of the Big 3’s 1-ton diesel trucks in Popular Mechanics a couple years ago. The GM model had more power and also significantly better mileage (3 or 4 MPG better); some of that is likely attributed to the Allison transmission which is bulletproof and efficient.
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As for the Ford diesels. I have a few friends that have owned them with no problems with reliability or longevity.
September 17th, 2009 at 11:43 AM
Steve, I have a 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 4WD Cummins turbo diesel long bed w/extended cab. Have only had one minor glitch when I got some bad fuel that froze up during a surprise ice storm here in S. Texas a few years ago and the fuel pump disintegrated. That’s the only factory service I’ve ever had. I upgraded the suspension with after market off road components (KORE) and did a few minor engine mods (high flow air filter, new engine control module). The fit and finish of my truck is fine and it drives as well or better on the highway as my 96 Impala. I average 17/18mpg around town and when I pull my loaded show car trailer I’ll get around 10mpg. An interesting fact on the Cummins engine — it supposedly has 30% fewer moving parts than a Ford diesel which to my mind equates to fewer points of potential failure. This truck is the best vehicle I’ve ever owned. I also put in an after market 58 gallon fuel tank (TransferFlow) that gives me about a 1000 mile range when I’m not towing my trailer. I also installed a Fuel/Air Separation system to avoid any future problems with bad fuel. Yes, it’s big and that’s a feature to my mind.
TxBubba
September 17th, 2009 at 11:49 AM
I learned something interesting. The 6.7-liter Cummins has a truly evil and stupid emissions system. Worse than I first realized. If you don’t get rid of it, you can expect regular trips to increasingly sparse Dodge dealers for maintenance. If you do get rid of it, you have to worry about passing emissions inspections.
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Bad.
September 17th, 2009 at 12:07 PM
I think you have to go back to the 5.9L cummings. The later offerings have 24 valve engines and are more complicated. The last 12 valve cummings was 1998, perhaps older that you are in the market for,
September 17th, 2009 at 2:54 PM
A straight six is naturally balanced and smooth (relatively), so that’s not a problem.
September 17th, 2009 at 7:07 PM
Steve,
what you want is the 5.9 or 6 liter, not the 6.7.
They have essentially no emissions controls in comparison, are utterly bulletproof, and you can increase the horsepower and torque by about 50%, without a great deal of expense or any real reduction in reliability.
In fact, you can increase power and torque by 25% and actually INCREASE your fuel economy 2-4mpg simultaneously, at the expense of running from 50-200 degrees hotter at the exhaust (which isn’t really a problem).
Look for a 2006 or 2007 Ram 2500 with low mileage. If your market is anything like the one here in Phoenix, you’ll pay between 1/2 and 2/3 the original MSRP.
I have a 3/4 ton megacab (thats the crewcab+extended cab combined) with the 6L Cummins. It’s 21 feet long, weights 7000 lbs, and gets 23mpg on the highway 19 around town.
Oh and it’ll do 0-60 in about 7 seconds.
My truck originally sold for $56,000 I bought it at less than two years old, for $28k.
Obviously, you don’t need the megacab version (two kids, two dogs, we do); you can get one a lot shorter with just the extended cab.
Two things though. I don’t know why you have the impression that a three quarter ton is “HUGE” compard to a half ton; because they aren’t. The dimensional difference is the matter of a few inches and a couple hundred pounds. In exchange you get massive additional capability, and higher resale value to boot.
Oh and it should be noted that 3/4 tons are actually 1.5 or 2 tons these days. Mine has a 3500lb in bed payload rating and a 13,500lb towing capacity.
Second, why on earth would you buy a warranty? It’s a pickup truck. Your maintenance costs that would be covered by the warranty are entirely unlikely to come anywhere near the actual cost of the warranty. A whole new transmission can be had for the cost of two years worth of warranty payments.
September 17th, 2009 at 7:33 PM
My daily driver is a 1998 Dodge Ram 2500 4WD Cummins turbo diesel long bed w/extended cab with just under 200,000 miles on it. The only cosmetic problems (both inside and out) are the dents, scratches, and spills my family has inflicted on the thing. Nothing inside or out has rattled loose or fallen apart. Aside from normal maintenance and expected wear items, this truck has been pretty problem free. Can’t say much about the other brands, but in 1998 Dodge was building a fantastic truck.
September 18th, 2009 at 9:05 AM
I said the trucks are huge because high-capacity pickups (down here, at least) tend to be four-door jobs, often with long beds. If you look at the stuff available around Miami right now, you’ll see all sorts of four-doors. The half-ton market seems to have a much better selection of regular and extended cabs. It’s annoying how the SUV crowd has infected pickup design.
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As for the warranty, the value depends on the price I can negotiate. If you’re right about the expense, and if I can get a good deal on the truck to begin with, a warranty would be pretty stupid.
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The Dodge I’m looking at is advertised as having a 6.7-liter engine, but the VIN reflects 5.9 liters, which, as you say, would be a lot better. I can’t believe how the environmentalist idiots have ruined the 6.7 Cummins.
September 18th, 2009 at 1:08 PM
You’re on the right track with the Ford Diesels – the new ones SUCK. Something like 24 service bulletins issued, vs. 3 for the Duramax(Chevy) and none for the Cummins.
Keep in mind, that the Cummins is a medium duty truck motor, while the other two aren’t – getting a coupla million miles out of one isn’t exactly unheard of with the regular 400K mile rebuild. Personally I’d stay away from a Chrysler with and automatic – they went from building one of the the best automatics of it’s day(the 727 Torqueflite) to building JUNK. If you do get an auto – plan on spending a coupla grand on one of the aftermarket upgraded rebuilds. Also, be wary of some of the 24v motors – the early ones(98-99 were particularly bad) had crappy injector pumps(The VP44 I believe, which is fuel lubricated and very intolerant of low sulfur diesel), a very expensive part to replace/rebuild. The later Common Rail models with the CP3 pump were significantly better. If you do get a good deal on one of the “bad years”, change the lift pump to a higher output aftermarket version – low lift pump pressure to the injector pump is one of the things that really kills the VP44.
As for mileage, a mutual acquaintance has a Cummins Diesel, and he gets something like 23mpg as long as he keeps his foot off the pedal.
If you are towing more than 4-5K lbs on a regular basis, I’d seriously look at 3/4 ton. You may be saving some money upfront by buying a F-150, but when you start going through transmissions like paper plates, it’s gonna run you some money.