Shun Expensive Knives

July 7th, 2009

China Wins Again

Today, as a favor to my dad, I sat through a Cutco presentation. Cutco is a knife company, and the knives are marketed by an outfit called Vector. Maybe it’s the same company. I don’t know. They hire college kids to go around selling knife sets to people they know. The daughter of one of my dad’s business contacts asked if she could show this stuff to me. Supposedly, she would get paid whether I bought anything or not.

I hate having things sold to me, unless it’s something I already know is worthwhile. I also hate wasting a salesperson’s time. And there was no way I was going to buy anything. I have so many knives. Two Japanese cleavers. A santoku. A Forschner chef’s knife. A $20 Chinese cleaver which is probably the best kitchen knife I own. A 14″ Forschner scimitar. Two bird’s beak paring knives. Two cheap Henckels chef’s knives I rarely use. A Japanese chicken knife. A Tojiro nakiri. Other knives I can’t remember.

I was asked to bring out a steak knife, my favorite serrated knife, and my favorite straight-edged knife. I brought out the Forschner chef’s knife, a cheap Henckels bread knife, and a Henckels steak knife. The rep brought out a piece of rope–same material as baling twine–and asked me to cut it with my chef’s knife, with only one stroke. The idea was for me to get halfway through and look like a boob, so I could then try the Cutco, which would go through effortlessly. Sadly, this is not what happened. I had given my knife a few licks with a diamond hone in the kitchen, so it slid through the rope like it was a Vienna sausage. The cleaver would have bitten into the cutting board as well.

My other knives didn’t do so well, but then, they’re crappy knives I never sharpen. If meat requiring a sharp steak knife ever makes it to my table, I’ve done something very wrong. I don’t use serrated knives for cooking. A really sharp knife will go right through bread without deforming it; serrations are for people who can’t sharpen anything.

The rep also cut a penny in half with a pair of Cutco kitchen shears. This is impressive, although the shears lacked the notch kitchen shears ordinarily have, which catches and holds chicken bones so the shears will cut them. I would not want to cut chicken without that notch.

A lot of people on the web say nice things about Cutco knives. Perhaps many of these things are true. However, it’s very obvious that a lot of these people are shills. Or at least they look that way. Check out this quotation I found:

Besides that though, Cutco knives are really better than ANYTHING else. My parents have owned their set for over 30 years and they are still sharp!

Yeah, I’m sure that’s an honest comment. This person also claims he used to be a rep, and that he sold 29 sets in 40 tries. No salesman is that good. If he had done that well, he’d still be doing it, wouldn’t he? Maybe not. If you have talent like that, you need to forget knives and move up to something like commercial real estate or private jets.

He’s probably telling the truth about his parents’ knives. They stay sharp, because his parents always use their other knives.

Here’s how sales works, in the real world. Make 50 calls, get 5 responses, make 1 sale. Maybe this guy is the Mozart of sales, so the rules don’t apply to him. But I am skeptical.

The Cutco pitch goes like this. Henckels knives retail for $1500 per set, and they sell for $1000 per set, and our way better knives sell for $749 per set, and we’ll sharpen them free, forever. A quick Google reveals that a 9-piece Henckels Five-Star 18-piece set can be had for $560. That’s not the cheap Henckel line, either. Wusthof Classics–better than Henckels–cost about the same amount.

Henckels and Wusthof have forged blades. Consumer Reports says Cutco blades are stamped. Hmm…

I should also point out that the Cutcos look cheap. The web says they’re 440A stainless, which is the cheap grade of 440. What you really want is 440C. And they’re thin. The handles look like plain old plastic to me.

As I have said before, I am no longer a sucker for expensive knives. I have two Shuns, and I would never buy one again. They chip if you look at them funny. The ergonomics are weak. You absolutely cannot put them in the dishwasher under any circumstances, regardless of what the ads say. And a good price for one Shun santoku is $80. These are not knives. These are toys for people who can’t cook. If you spend a lot of time serving bad pretty food prepared with expensive equipment, Shuns are for you. If you want something you can use, get Forschner.

Don’t let what happened to me happen to you. That’s what I’m saying. I was an idiot. Learn from my example.

My two favorite knives are the Chinese cleaver and my Forschner chef’s knife. The cleaver takes an edge fast, so sharp you can hold a sheet of paper in front of you with one hand and swing the cleaver all the way through it. It minces garlic into tiny particles, with shocking speed. You can make sheets of ripe tomato with it. The back side tenderizes meat. The side knocks the peels off garlic cloves. The Forschner sharpens fast, cuts beautifully, and comes out of the dishwasher looking like new. The Shuns…I’m not sure where they are right now.

Total cost for a Forschner and a cleaver, including shipping? About $45.

I’d use the cleaver all the time, if it were stainless. I hate washing things by hand.

I wished I could have bought something the Cutco girl showed me, just as a kindness, but $749 to relearn a painful lesson…bad idea. These knives may be great for people who can’t use a stone or a hone. I can put a razor edge on a dull knife in under a minute. I don’t need something that has to go back to a factory to get an edge.

I admire anyone who has the guts and determination to go into sales, but this product is not for me.

10 Responses to “Shun Expensive Knives”

  1. ErikZ Says:

    I ended up with a small Cutco knife at some point. Sure it’s a sharp knife, but the reason I like it is the handle. Someone put a lot of thought into it.

    On the other hand, I’m used low priced cutlery. It may be that no one put any effort into the handles of the cheap stuff.

  2. Ben Says:

    Cutco representatives have such good sales records because they focus on family and friends. It’s a really smart business model actually. Completely guilt based. Who better to have sell something than a struggling college student who happens to be a relative/family friend? On the other hand people don’t end up working for Cutco for very long because sooner or later they run out of contacts. Don’t get me wrong, the knives are okay, but they’re not the primary reason most people buy.

  3. Phil Says:

    Those Japanese knives are great but Fallkniven makes the best knives I’ve ever seen.

  4. Dan from Madison Says:

    Yep, I sat through this same demo – 22 YEARS ago. Nothing has changed. It was my college girlfriend at the time doing the presentation and I bought a set – OBVIOUSLY I had to buy a set – they were much cheaper back then iirc. I still have them and they are OK.

    As far as the Shun knives go, I love to find them on clearance, or stolen. I say stolen because you can find them by the truckload on ebay for fairly cheap compared to the standard prices. I can put a pretty good edge on them. The ergonomics are crappy, that I will admit.

  5. Aaron's cc: Says:

    Next time you visit, I’ll have you show me and my boys how to sharpen knives. We don’t have the knack… yet.

  6. Pam Says:

    I still have the same stainless knives that were given to me when I graduated high school. I was 16. I’ve added to them, but never replaced them. I don’t hesitate to cut anything with them; I’ve even used them as screwdrivers and can openers. They’ve never let me down…but, my Daddy carries a small stone in his pocket and practically every time he visits, he hones ’em.

  7. Clint Says:

    It’s good to be skeptical. I grew up in a family of knife fanatics.
    My wife tried selling in college, and ran out of relatives. So she stopped selling. We have a full set about 18 yrs old. Never sharpened the chef knife, or the pairing knife, and use them all the time. Pretty much daily. The chef knife is getting some small rust spots on the blade, which I hope to get replaced under warranty. I agree with EricZ, it’s easy to fall in love with the handles. Every fall we process 1-3 deer, and the handles grip well with little hand fatigue. My wife’s Grand Father was good for breaking the blades. But I have no idea how he broke them boning deer. (prying?) The fillet knife is the favorite of a couple old timers who fish allot in her family. (But her Dad never used his) Cutting pennies with kitchen shears is a nice trick. I found that I could do it with most household shears, but my wife cut pennies constantly, and making corkscrews out of pennies is kinda a thing I link to do when company comes over. 18 years of cutting pennies, rawhide for the dogs, and for one fall, vinyl siding, those damn shears still kick butt. Sorry to ramble on.

  8. Clint Says:

    Oh, I don’t know the policy on dish washer use, but we rarely wash ours by hand.

  9. Adlib Says:

    Your post made me giggle. I used to sell those knives as a college student. I cannot put pressure on people so I even felt bad selling to people I knew. However, I made some sales, and to this day, my friends and family tell me that they cut themselves all the time with them since they’re still so sharp (I guess people are clumsy!). I love mine, but that’s because I got a set cheap because I was a salesperson for them. You’re right; the blades are stamped. “Made in America” did a show about how they were made. The shears are forged though. (Saw that on “How It’s Made”)

    My mom had a Cutco set from back in the 70’s. One time she broke a blade doing who knows what, but they replaced it for free! A knife made in the 70’s replaced for free–that just blew me away. She also had some others refurbished, and that kind of service just impresses the socks off me.

    I guess it’s all in your personal experience with them.

  10. Claire Says:

    I sat through that demo once, many many moons ago. I actually bought one that day. A spatula type thingie with one serrated edge.

    When ya bent it against a table, it made the oddest sound; kinda like playing a saw. I miss that silly thing. I never cut with it, but it could amuse me for minutes on end.

    [they said the handles were bowling ball material…]

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