Mish-Led?
June 8th, 2009Blog Drama Approaches Crescendo
I have some weird news for you.
A few months back, someone I know voiced suspicions regarding the existence of Mish Weiss. As I recall, this was before the strange twists and turns in her story. According to Mish’s blog, she was fighting leukemia, and things didn’t look good. I don’t think we had learned of her long-lost daughter, who later gave her a bone marrow transplant. At that time, it made for moving reading, but it wasn’t unbelievable.
Out of respect for my friend’s instincts, I did a little research. I couldn’t find any record of a Mish Weiss in New Jersey, which is where she says she was born. I did find evidence of Mish which predated the leukemia story, and it didn’t seem to have anything to do with cancer or drama. I also considered the friends Mish named on her blog. At least one of them, Cary Veech, seemed to check out as a real person. And I knew Leah from my own blog, where she had been commenting for a long time.
My conclusion was that the story was probably real. I figured a fake this detailed would be beyond the reach of a bored blogger starving for attention. I believe what I said was that prayer didn’t cost me anything, so it wasn’t a great loss if it turned out my suspicious friend was right.
I didn’t know as much about the story as many other people. I didn’t keep up with any of the crew on Facebook or Twitter. I just checked in on Mish and posted prayer requests from time to time. I really wasn’t concerned about whether it was real; I figured I would err on the side of caution and not worry about it. Others inquired more deeply.
Now if you go to Leah Friedman’s blog, you will see a bizarre post by her friend Cary. He claims he has locked everyone out of the blog, and he says he and Leah have a relationship, and he can’t get her to confirm her identity, or even that she exists. So there goes one real-life friend who seemed to confirm the story.
I learned something weird today. Supposedly, Mish had an online friend who was an FBI agent, and who claimed he was joining the Mossad. That’s a little hard to swallow. The Mossad is an intelligence agency belonging to another country. That makes it exceedingly unlikely that they would accept American citizens belonging to another intelligence agency with interests that sometimes conflict with Israel’s. A commenter on Leah’s blog says this person, who calls himself “Mason,” has removed his Twitter account and pretty much vanished. This is all secondhand; I have not kept up with this the way others have, so I can only report what they say.
Another comment says no oncology department in Jerusalem has any record of Mish Weiss or anyone resembling her.
On top of that, Mish’s blog is now private. I have no idea what’s going on. I haven’t been invited yet.
So what is the truth? No idea. If it’s a con, it’s very well done. I admit, the story has gotten awfully good lately, which is cause for skepticism, but remarkable things do happen. You can’t just assume unusual stories aren’t true.
I guess we’ll get the answer this week. If Leah and Mish are on the level, they can prove it very quickly, and they will. If not, not.
Do I feel angry or betrayed? No. Like I said, a little bird has been whispering in my ear about this for a very long time, so I knew there was a possibility I was wasting my time. I don’t care. Praying for other people improves me. I got my blessing out of it, regardless of whether the story is true. If it’s a sham, the punishment will not fall on me.
In a way, I hope it’s a lie, because it means there is no sick girl languishing in a hospital bed in Jerusalem. I don’t feel stupid; everyone believes a good lie. It’s not going to make me bitter or damage my faith. I don’t have faith in people; I haven’t for a long time. I have faith in God.
I know my friend the skeptic will be excited to read this. I won’t out that person. They can pipe up in the comments if they wish. If Mish is imaginary, figuring it out so early was pretty sharp, so unnamed friend, my hat is off to you.
More
It gets even weirder! Now Leah’s blog has been changed to invitation-only!
June 8th, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Wow, so we got to pray for someone who wasn’t there, maybe? Man, I am sure mad about the millions of dollars I wasted doing that. Oh, wait, it didn’t cost me a THING, and I’m pretty sure prayers don’t cause you any physical harm, so BFD. If 90% of the things I pray for are bogus, I will pray that those prayers are redirected towards someone who needs the help.
Can’t see a single reason this is a bad thing, no matter how hard I try.
June 8th, 2009 at 11:56 AM
it would be sad if this is all fake. i guess with all of the other junk going on in the world, i really loved the idea of something that gives hope. definitely a strange story.
June 8th, 2009 at 12:15 PM
“I don’t have faith in people; I haven’t for a long time. I have faith in God.”
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That is exactly my own belief, my nature is to be a giving person and it has really cost me lately. And not just money either.
Still in his grip.
June 8th, 2009 at 12:25 PM
“…someone I know voiced suspicions regarding the existence of Mish Weiss.”
Well… she has a very pretty voice for someone who doesn’t exist. Her emails to me are so good and authentic, it makes the Craigslist scammers look like monkeys with typewriters (I rent off of Craigslist and have had MANY ‘conversations’ and have, at times, tried to drag the emailing along as far as I could to see what would happen next).
Whoever it was needs a little more experience. But then… I could be a figment of everybodys imagination too… Muahahahahaaaaa!!!!!!!
June 8th, 2009 at 12:28 PM
Read the bible or Dante’s Inferno…I say there’s still a special place in the abyss for people that elect to waste the genuine, sincere time and concerns of their fellow humans–money or mind–when others truely in need could use the efforts. I hope you haven’t been the victim of a hoax…but for some reason I never got on board that bandwagon either.
June 8th, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Seeming more like an elaborate hoax. I was kinda pissed at first. Felt like I wasted my time thinking these people were real. But the more I think about it, if this all was indeed an elaborate hoax, I give them credit for being so convincing for so long. Still seems sort of cruel to play people to the extent they have if this is indeed fake. They must have had a lot of time to waste for such a drawn out hoax. So obviously I am still a little torn as to what to believe. But I did learn about some cool music from their posts.
June 8th, 2009 at 1:17 PM
Interesting to be sure. If it is a fake, I simply cannot believe that people have the time and energy to make all that up. For what? A few lousy hits? Does it really give people the jollys to see others wish a made up person well? Strange, indeed.
June 8th, 2009 at 1:29 PM
Just checked and now Leah’s blog is completely down. The drama continues.
June 8th, 2009 at 1:30 PM
Lessee, let’s find a mid level Christian blogger who supports Israel. Then, we’ll comment on his posts about people who need prayer. We’ll contact those people and comment on other blogs. Then, we’ll claim we need prayer for tragic reasons, and we’ll start a couple of blogs. After that, we’ll not ask for donations – unless it’s to a cancer charity or the giver’s favorite charity in our name. We’ll just ask for prayer. We’ll keep everyone on their toes with the drama and have ourselves a real good time. That’s it, we won’t make any money for all our hours and months of work, we’ll just have a larf or two.
Seems likely to me – not.
June 8th, 2009 at 1:34 PM
I’m not excited to read this post. It actually makes me sad that I might be right.
June 8th, 2009 at 1:43 PM
Steve,
Sorry to hear about your little mish-mish fruit going bad. I was taken in too. At the very least, it took my mind off of my own problems for a while. With all the privacy laws running around now, I’m amazed that anyone can check if some patient really exists, at least in the USA. It may be different in Israel. Unfortunately I’m having surgery tomorrow at 3PM EDT. Again! It seems my ureter was too small for the ureterscope, but they did place a stent, which greatly lessened the pain. Apparently, this happens about 10% of the time.
The nurse said last week that there are people who come in for kidney stone surgery every month!
I assure you that I *do* exist! I just wish my kidney stone did not. I don’t want any attention, I just want this all to be over, and in good health.
–Brad
June 8th, 2009 at 1:47 PM
below is similar to what I posted on Leah’s site earlier this morning, which could be the reason Cary locked us all out:
I have gone back to approx a year ago, in Leah’s blog, and it was all very benign… they talk about little things, like how many days since her last seizure, med changes, going to shul, apologizing to her friends for all they do to take care of her, how her therapy was going, etc.
Very mundane things, why would anyone make that up? It seemed very real and almost boring! Also, the medical descriptions are very clear & correct… so the old posts do seem real.
If it is a hoax, we all fell victim to it, it only cost us our time, emotions and prayers & maybe some embarrassment. Some more then others, but there are such bigger problems in this world…
June 8th, 2009 at 1:50 PM
I think we can get our IT to write a quick redirect and have those prayers sent Brad’s way. Should take a couple minutes.
June 8th, 2009 at 2:24 PM
Is Mish is a pen-name for a talented Nigerian hoaxer who wanted to string you along as revenge for “The Good, The Spam and The Ugly”?
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I don’t think there’s religious penance for time-theft. In Hebrew the term is “gneivat zman”. There is also a concept called “gneivat daat”, theft of mind–that is, deceit. A pickpocket can return the money with a penalty. Nobody who ever wasted your time can give you your time back.
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Reminds me I need to follow up on a conversation I had a couple of years ago with Meir Tamari http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meir_Tamari onetime senior economist of the Bank of Israel. In the conversation, I suggested that it may be reasonable to execute professional spammers based upon a conservative calculation of the amount of human time/potential they steal in aggregate. A spammer sends at least 5 million spams a week = 260 million a year. Assume that each spam costs at least 2 second of human time to delete or to work to pay for anti-spam software or configure same or hire a pro to spam-protect a business. That’s 520 million seconds a year, roughly 16.5 human years per year. Allowing a professional spammer to remain active for 6 years therefore steals 99 years of human potential in aggregate.
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Russian spammer Vardan Kushner was sending 7 million spams a day, 10x the human-timetheft rate of the above example, effectively killing at least two 99-year lives per year. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.08/spamking.html One could reasonably argue using utilitarian calculus that it would be a kindness to humanity to have permanently eliminated Kushner. There is a Biblical concept of a “rodef”, a pursuer, which one may extrajudicially kill without needing to inquire about the motives of the pursuer. I’ve often thought about whether a professional spammer qualifies but I will have to rely on a Heavenly Tribunal to execute judgement.
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Having had weeks of my life stolen by hackers and spammers, I would have little moral qualms about sentencing my attackers to isolation for having denied me time with my family, friends or otherwise earning a living.
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I once had an Orthodox Jewish web client that manufactured coffins. His joke was that people asked him what he prayed for.
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It’s a paradox to pray that this isn’t a hoax.
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I don’t believe any prayer goes unanswered. God puts earnest prayers into an account that He allocates best. That’s why we often don’t get what we pray for. There is also inherent benefit is seeking closeness to God.
June 8th, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Well I guess what we have here is a question of faith, don’t we?
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Nobody is certain that anyone is telling the truth on the internet. Infact, the internet is known to have a lot of deception and imaginary people running around.
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I know I have had conversations with and read posts from a variety of people who were ‘in’ on this so-called hoax. I have a hard time believing that so many people would be able to choreograph… let alone pull off… a hoax for this length of time against so few people. For what? Money? A Nihilistic joy-ride to fool a few dopes?
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Being that I am 43 years old, been tricked by a variety of people through my life, this is the most complex so-called con I’ve experienced so far (the best was from a drug runner and his brother who were trying to set up one of my tenants – and possibly me – as drug dealers they could finger for the police so one of them could get a lighter sentence).
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If I was tricked, and this is a hoax – how has it harmed me? Og is right. I choose to take a chance and believe and I will continue to aid Mish within my own capacity. If she is real, she needs us. The choice is yours:
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What do YOU believe?
June 8th, 2009 at 3:03 PM
Aaron – I don’t feel any justification is needed to execute spammers.
June 8th, 2009 at 3:17 PM
Well Steve, I can’t tell you how many tears I have shed over Mish. Her story broke my heart but also offered hope.
I want to think that since they did not ask for money or anything really that maybe they are legit. But then again I’m an optimist.
June 8th, 2009 at 3:19 PM
Brad I will be praying for you to have quick and easy procedure with no pain.
June 8th, 2009 at 3:42 PM
thats about the strangest damn thing i have ever imagined. I really thought, given what i do for a living, that i had seen it all.
it appears that i have not.
June 8th, 2009 at 4:12 PM
and now Leah’s blog is back. strange…
June 8th, 2009 at 4:19 PM
Looks like the Leah blog is back open, what a bizarre post and comments!
June 8th, 2009 at 4:51 PM
Dan, in hardly hyperbolic moments, I’ve fantasized about gutting like a fish a spammer in front of his loved ones during the Super Bowl halftime show.
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We need serious disincentives for spammers and hackers to consider different lines of work instead of using their notoriety to become future lucratively-paid security consultants.
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There should be about as many people who consider spamming/hacking for a living as armed bank robbers.
June 8th, 2009 at 5:16 PM
Belief? This isn’t “How many angels can dance on a head of a pin.” Just go find out if she exists or not.
June 8th, 2009 at 5:23 PM
When I read the MIsh blog yesterday it was stated they may have to make it private and said to send an email to ask for an invitation. I didn’t write the address down, nor did I email. I have no idea who or why is apparently messing with her blog. But if you have an email address or can find a cache of the blog you might try writing an email asking for an invitation. I don’t have Leah’s blog address so can’t check on that one either. I hope if she is real she is getting better and that someone gets over their paranoria.
June 8th, 2009 at 5:59 PM
I just want to say I am sorry to all that tried to access “Leah’s” blog today and were not able to, that was a mistake on my part and it has been corrected. I was looking in the “Permissions” area where the blogs can be set to “Private”, as Mish’s blog was set to this morning, and selected the section. What I did not realize was that this was an immediate change and did you require a “Save” button to be clicked. Being that I am an administrator on the blog everything looked fine to me and I didnt think anything about it. I found out this afternoon what had happened, by someone sending me an email, and it was immediately changed back. Again, I apologize for the confusion.
Oh, and yes this really is Cary. Just thought I would throw that in.
June 8th, 2009 at 6:12 PM
@Ruth H I saw this to and there would be no reason for that blog to be taken private. I have done nothing but look at the posts from the past couple days on the Mish blog and have not even posted a comment.
The email address that you would want, to request to see the blog would be mishweiss [way over at] gmail .com
Edited by blog host.
June 8th, 2009 at 6:17 PM
“Just go find out if she exists or not.”
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Erikz… If you’ve been following Mish’s ordeal closely you will find that her identity has been concealed to protect her.
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Therefore… in the short term… it is one of belief.
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Furthermore… identifying yourself over the world wide web … in Israel… as a Jew… with a specific identification… and location… is not the smartest thing to do either.
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Though I am a Christian living in the midwest of the US of A, I still am hesitant to reveal much. If some hot head wants to find me… start digging. Hopefully by then, they’ll cool down a bit and I’ll be ready…
June 8th, 2009 at 6:20 PM
Strange Day…
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Similar to what you said, Prayer costs me nothing, but the relationship with whom I pray to gives me everything, so I’m richer for it.
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At least I can give you assurance that the people I have asked for prayer are real (although I wish the outcome had been different):
http://www.legacy.com/DAILYHERALD/Obituaries.asp?Page=Lifestory&PersonId=125662930
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If true, I’m amazed that people have this much time on their hands.
June 8th, 2009 at 6:40 PM
just out of curosity, how did everyone from Mish/Leah find this blog?
I am not even sure I stumbled upon it!
June 8th, 2009 at 7:27 PM
So I’ve got an invite to the blog and here are a couple of observations:
1) there have been no new posts since they went private
2) they can have no more than 100 invited guests.
We’ll see how things turn out from behind the password-wall. It is strange to me that someone would go to so much trouble with an internet hoax for a guaranteed maximum audience of 100 people. It seems like if attention’s what you’re after, going private’s not the way to do it. I’m not sure what to make of any of this….
June 8th, 2009 at 9:22 PM
I thought I would repost this Anonymous comment that was left on the “Leah Friedman” blog. http://leahmetermaid.blogspot.com/
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“It’s not hard to understand. Leah and Mish are the creation of a sad and lonely person desperately looking for attention and validation. Whoever made this up hasn’t committed any crime but they have abused the trust of hundreds if not thousands of people. They have also apparently pulled at some heartstrings and gotten personally involved with a number of men, including Cary as one very severe example. This “scam” wasn’t particularly well executed. It didn’t take long for us to determine that both Mish and Leah, while creatively executed, are completely fictional characters. There is no one like Mish in any Oncology ward in any hospital not just in Jerusalem but in all of Israel. This has been confirmed by a number of Doctors who would be in a position to have access to such information. None of that information is private: mere residence in an Oncology ward is not privileged information. Furthermore, Leah claims to have dated a man called Avi, an Oleh (new immigrant) from Detroit who died in the 2nd Lebanon War. In an odd coincidence, not one of the casualties in that war, either civilian or military, was called either Avi or Avner nor were any of the casualties new olim from Detroit. Look it up for yourself:
http://www.pmo.gov.il/PMOEng/Communication/IsraelUnderAttack/Lebanon+North/attacklebanonnorth.htm
Still, this was a masterful piece of entertainment and a fantastic study in human psychology. Mish’s blog is now no longer public and by invitation only and people persist in believing the really bad lies perpetrated by the person in question. This despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I could continue but is there really a point? Do you need to know that a highly placed IDF officer with access to manpower records told us that there is no record of a 28 year old female member of the IDF that remotely resembles Mish? That we checked and double checked every possibility with this officer and couldn’t find anyone at all matching that description?
No by now it should be clear to even the most thick headed individual out there that Mish and Leah DO NOT EXIST. Guess everyone’s prayers have been answered. Mish won’t die because she is the made up product of a feverish and imbalanced imagination. But bravo! Good job! You had nearly everyone fooled!”
June 8th, 2009 at 9:38 PM
SSSsss: it is probable this blog is the original one that many read and were lead by the prayer requests to go to Mish’s blog. Steve H has also posted words of comfort on the Mish blog.
June 8th, 2009 at 10:03 PM
I would have initially assumed it was a protective measure against nitwits and miscreants who can be nasty to people with a web presence. Although I would have tertiary suspicions of having perhaps ben spoofed,
June 8th, 2009 at 11:45 PM
Nobody thinks it wrong that Cary “takes over Leah’s blog” to state his views? People blog under assumed names all the time, my son does.
If I were Leah I’d be thanking my lucky stars I didn’t tell him anything.
How would you all feel if your ex took over your blog? Violated maybe? This sure tells me a lot about him. You’d be yelling bloody murder. As for IF they are real or pretend. Who cares? Not me.
I’ve been reading Leah’s blog for 2 years and the one before that when she was still a young girl. Has she ever asked anyone for anything? Ever?
Would someone pulling a scam bother to go pray for strangers on their blogs? To drum up blog hits? For what? she has no ads, her blog generates no income. Oh wait she has a link to your book Steve. I support Leah.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:02 AM
cond0010 Says: “Furthermore… identifying yourself over the world wide web … in Israel… as a Jew… with a specific identification… and location… is not the smartest thing to do either.”
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Not sure if readers here understand just how bad it is. IDF personnel above known to have served in Gaza cannot travel to an Interpol country for business or pleasure for fear of being arrested on war crimes charges. It’s adversely affecting the IDF’s ability to develop leaders.
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None of the same “human rights” groups ever go try to get Interpol nations to arrest bloody-handed members of Hamas or Fatah.
June 9th, 2009 at 7:05 AM
I’ve actually been praying on occasion that Mish’s story was a hoax, because then there would be at least one less person suffering. The reason I suspected at all was that there was a local con blog that a lot of people followed years ago; it read like a soap opera, and it turned out the female’s blog was written by a middle-aged dude working out his creative writing bug. So any time a blog starts getting soap-opra-ey (or, in Mish’s case, when it already is by the time I’ve seen it) I suspect. But since I couldn’t (and can’t) verify, I’ll continue praying until there’s good news or a confession.
June 9th, 2009 at 9:35 AM
Steve,
do you remember the name of the man that was writing the blog back then? the one that turned out to be a soap opera?
Thanks
June 9th, 2009 at 9:37 AM
I agree with Michelle.
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This ‘con’ is far over written. It would the Tolkien Trilogy of ‘con’ blogs if that was the case.
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Why is anyone listening to someone who, in the heat of rage, is making outrageous accusations?
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If you wanted to shut anyone down on the internet, what better way to do it than to say ‘This person(s) is(are) not real’.
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nuff said.
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He has achieved what he set out to do. The blogs are closed. I’ve given Cary far more attention than he deserves.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:02 AM
Alright, so now, interestingly, I no longer have an invitation.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:21 AM
WHAT IS THEIR MOTIVATION TO CREATE AND CONTINUE THEIR BLOG???
yes, it is stopped now, but again what was the motivation behind it?
June 9th, 2009 at 11:27 AM
Steve & Cary, Could I have your permission to re-post Cary’s 9:22pm comment here about the identity on my blogs?
I have had Mish prayer requests on my blog and my mom’s cancer blog(and YES, she does really exist and she really has cancer). This whole thing is just so sickening!!!
June 9th, 2009 at 11:28 AM
Fine by me.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:39 AM
Fine by me as well.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:42 AM
Beginning to sound like junior high drama. Hm.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:48 AM
I too no longer have an invitation to read Mish’s blog. I know when I checked earlier this morning there was a post about taking the blog down. So maybe that is what happened.
June 9th, 2009 at 12:43 PM
Disinterested party here, but it seems to me that either way it goes, whether a fake person or a real person, you’re dealing with serious illness in need of prayers.
June 9th, 2009 at 1:01 PM
Sherlock: the guy’s name was Odin Soli. http://mexicanyear.odinsoli.com/ I have problems believing he’d have anything to do with this one if it is a hoax, especially since he’s far from the only person to do that sort of thing: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/weblog/permalink/plain_layne/
June 9th, 2009 at 2:56 PM
Bob is right, and I think we should pray for mental healing for someone, or all.
June 9th, 2009 at 6:10 PM
Interesting that the typical communal prayer for health at an Orthodox synagogue uses the phrase “refuas hanefesh v’refuas haguf”, “healing of the spirit and a healing of the body”. I don’t think the order is a mistake. An unhealthy spirit will likely result in physical illness.
June 9th, 2009 at 6:12 PM
Because of the way this blog is going, I have learned a lot about prayer. I never pray for anyone’s physical healing without praying they discover and repent of their sins, etcetera. God gives people physical illnesses, whether we like to acknowledge it or not. The Bible is packed with examples.
June 9th, 2009 at 9:46 PM
Gossip in Hebrew is Lashon Hara, which literally means “the evil tongue.” Lashon Hara is Negative Mitzvah #301; it essentially outlaws gossip, true or false, about others or even one’s self.
“Don’t bear vain hearsay”; with a slight change in the vocalization we also learn “Don’t give others the chance to bear vain hearsay” (Exodus 23:1).
And this is a very serious and dangerous transgression. The Psalms state that a person who desires life will avoid speaking ill of others (Psalms 34:13-14)); and our sages stated, “Gossip kills three: the teller, the listener, and the subject.” A “vain” story doesn’t have to be false or even slanderous; as long as the subject would prefer not to have the story broadcast, it is considered gossip and it’s none of your business.
June 9th, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Steve,
The operation was a success! A 40 watt laser was used to break up the kidney stone. Another stent was placed for the recovery period. I am at home, resting comfortably. The urologist wants to see me in about a month. Thanks for all of your prayers.
–Brad
June 10th, 2009 at 7:30 AM
Aaron is an Orthodox Jew. I have a great deal of respect for his opinions on moral and theological issues. Here is what he told me a while back about lashon hara: whether a tale is gossip depends on the context.
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Only Cary knows whether what he has done is right. If he is sure he was duped and the rest of us were duped, or even if he only suspects this very strongly and can’t get cooperation from Mish and Leah in resolving the question, he is right to break the story. Many people have spent hours of their time praying and fasting about this. A person has a limited amount of time and energy to devote to such things, so wasting time on a liar tends to deprive the deserving, who would otherwise receive the benefit.
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The question can be resolved in one day. “Taking the high road” doesn’t mean refraining from taking simple steps to end a controversy in which well-meaning people have become embroiled because of their desire to help you.
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Furthermore, attacking the messenger is a classic method liars use when exposed, and it is not even close to the high road. To anyone who has dealt with a drug addict, the strategy is painfully familiar.
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I dimly remember reading that Mish’s birthday was April Fool’s Day. Maybe Moxie can confirm this; I don’t know whether I mentioned it to her. I thought it was meaningless, because a con artist would have to be a moron to choose that day. Now I wonder if I was taken in.
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Mish and Leah should have verifiable contacts confirm their story. It’s a reasonable demand to make, in view of the sacrifices people are making for them, and it will validate a wonderful testimony that will benefit many, many believers.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:35 AM
Here’s something from Wikipedia.
“There are times when a person is obligated to speak out, even though the information is disparaging. Specifically, if a person’s intent in sharing the negative information is for a to’elet, a positive, constructive, and beneficial purpose, the prohibition against lashon hara does not apply. Motzi shem ra, spouting lies and spreading disinformation, is always prohibited. And if the lashon hara serves as a warning against the possibility of future harm, such communication is not only permissible, but, under certain conditions, compulsory.”
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I know Wikipedia is not the greatest possible authority on Jewish law, but this seems to make sense.
June 10th, 2009 at 7:54 AM
Better yet, from Torah.org:
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“So far, we have discussed individuals who have a sincere feeling of regret for straying from the path of our heritage. However, if someone proves himself to be one who does not care about Torah observance, either by
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1. demonstrating a flippant attitude in these matters, or
2. intentionally violating any commandment several times or intentionally violating a commandment which everyone knows about…
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…it is permissible to embarrass him and publicly speak derogatorily about him both in front of him and behind his back. Furthermore, if he does or says something which can be interpreted in different ways, as an established evil doer he is judged as guilty. The Sages instruct us to treat a consistently wicked person this way so that the community is separated from the religious disgrace (“chilul Hashem” = desecrating the name of G-d) that the individual has created. The community members should dishonor him until after the sinner returns from his corrupt ways. “
June 10th, 2009 at 12:48 PM
Re Wikipedia: that’s how I understand it. I shouldn’t tell you about how I was ripped off by a vendor unless I know that you are about to use the same vendor. Regarding motzei shem ra, there is also the positive commandment to keep far from falsehood. “Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not; for I will not justify the wicked.” Exodus 23:7. There is no commandment for me to keep far from pork or shaatnez (garment made with wool and linen mixture) or my neighbor’s wife (Leviticus 18:20). I merely have to not eat, wear or cohabit, respectively. Falsehood, however is unique in that one is positively commanded to distance oneself from it.
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There is also the command to judge favorably. (Lev. 19:15), “Judge your fellow people righteously.” If I saw a Hasid walk into a McDonald’s, there is the possibility that he may be diabetic and is ordering a Coke or that he desperately needed a bathroom. If one saw him walk out of the McDonald’s, sat down, opened up a Big Mac and chowed down, there’s even the possibility that there may be a movie being shot nearby and he’s an extra in costume. I live in Los Angeles, so this is quite plausible. OTOH, if I recognized the person, I might wish to take an unembarrassing moment to inquire.
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Another resource: http://www.torah.org/learning/halashon/chapter3.html
June 10th, 2009 at 1:08 PM
I am convinced now that this is one or two people max.
Maybe even some 60 year old male pervert or someone very lonely. What a shame. I got sucked in, but thankfully only for the last 10 weeks, not months or years like some of you.
I even had personal e-mails from him/it.
Whomever this poor pathetic person is, I pray they got what they needed from this & I pray that they WILL get what they DESERVE.
I also hope, that we (all of us suckers, who fell prey to this scandal) don’t lose sight of the good & compassion in real people, and that we don’t lose our faith & trust in people because of this idiot.
There are lots of sick, real people with horrible circumstances that so need our prayers and help.
June 10th, 2009 at 2:15 PM
This whole situation reminds me of this form the Holy Grail:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrzMhU_4m-g
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Either that or “The hunchback of Notre Dame”
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunchback_of_Notre_Dame
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I do not know why you are believing the words of ONE man who recently broke up with one of these women (thus having a grudge issue to deal with) – or disinterested parties who really haven’t done all that reading (let alone commented) on the websites.
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Now that I have experienced my first internet ‘hoax’hunt, I’ve come to the conclusion that I personally would not want to give ANY information about myself to people accusing me of not existing – especially the person who started the whole crazy thing in the first place.
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If I lived in Israel, I’d have even less reason to do so.
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Believe what you want.
June 10th, 2009 at 2:20 PM
Not sure who you’re addressing.
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Don’t forget the difference between skepticism and belief that another person has committed fraud. They are not even nearly the same thing.
June 10th, 2009 at 2:45 PM
Cary is NOT telling the whole story.
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There are other things I’d like to add – but out of respect for the privacy of the people involved, I WILL remain silent. Besides, I do not have enough creditability to prove or disprove anything to the people who come here to your website.
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But I AM dismayed at how readily people choose to call this a hoax based on the words of a person who has personal issues with the people he is accusing (one of which has been unconscious for days so she can’t speak on her own behalf). What are his credentials that you so readily believe him? Do you REALLY know who this man is? I can believe that you are even letting this guy get you to doubt. Your skepticism in this case, is based on half truths (half truths are quite powerful – as you know). You are being misled.
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Being that you are one of creditability at your website, Steve, perhaps you can ask Leah in _private_ about her _private_ life and then give your judgment as to whether you choose to believe her or Cary. I am sure the people here would follow what you have to say with out _dissecting_ this poor girls life on the world-wide-web. Maybe have Aaron speak with her instead of you. Up to you.
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As a landlord, I’ve experienced what Cary is doing to Leah. Several times.
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Cary is not telling the whole story.
June 10th, 2009 at 3:11 PM
Why can’t Leah put an end to this by proving some of the facts wrong? It could be done in an hour, with minimal effort. It wouldn’t be stooping to the level of an unethical enemy; it would be completely proper.
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I don’t want to make a “judgment” when it would be so easy for me to know for certain.
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All I know about Cary is what he tells us. So far, nothing he has said fails to check out. If there’s another side, someone will have to tell me what it is. I’m not going to assume anything, just so I can believe what I want to.
June 10th, 2009 at 3:34 PM
She shouldn’t have to.
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Especially if you read her blog very far back or if you read her twitters. This cresendo of crisises for both these women are in the _recent_ past.
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Their fame occurred by accident. They are very private people. Leah strikes me as shy; which is an opposite to who Mish is.
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Their problems are extra ordinary. But as Mark Twain said that fiction needs to be believable. Yes, sometimes drama comes into people lives, and in this case, it has happened to BOTH of them (Well, Leah had ongoing problems…but not like recently).
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If you choose to talk to her, perhaps you can come as a friend rather than a judge. It may help. But I think she wants her life _private_ and not something they put on the Jerry Springer show.
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btw… my neighbors birthday is April 1st. She just turned 88 years old. I used to shovel her snow and mow her lawn.
June 10th, 2009 at 3:39 PM
“She shouldn’t have to” is not an argument. Posting confirmation is what almost any reasonable person would do.
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I can only care about this as much as the actual players do. It’s not my job to play Internet detective. I am making no inquiries and no assumptions. I’m done until I hear something probative.
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Thread closed.
July 22nd, 2009 at 1:19 PM
[…] Well now there are indications Mish’ story may be a hoax.* […]