Call me “Auction Jackson”
January 14th, 2009Tools are Everywhere
I learned something interesting this week.
A while back, I located a used machinery dealer who had a bunch of drill presses on hand. He got them from the public schools. Someone asked me which dealer I was talking about. The name is A.M. Metalmaq.
They wanted $850 for the cheapest press. This is a stupid buy. I saw a brand new one for something like $1250. A used one should not cost more than half of that.
I rooted around on the web, and I found out that there are a lot of used machines out there, at auction. There are a number of government and government-connected sites that sell these things. You can get a nice Powermatic 1150 for maybe $250. You have to find someone to skid it and ship it, but that costs less than $400, so in the end, it’s worth the time and aggravation. And then there is IRSauctions.com.
I also learned that Miami-Dade County (I cannot believe we put “Miami” in the name to help South Americans realize where we were) has a store where it unloads surplus items. This may well be where the drill presses I found came from. I plan to run up there and see what they have. I’m sure every Cuban in Miami has been there already; they love a bargain, and ten minutes after one Cuban finds something good, the rest know all about it. But not too many people want big drill presses. And who knows what else they have?
I located a really nice Buffalo #18. They want $450, which is high for a machine that routinely turns up for $250, but it seems like a wonderful platform for a 3-phase motor and VFD.
Last night I went to Practicalmachinist.com to get advice on an Ebay drill press. It’s in Amelia Island, and the ad says it’s a Buffalo Forge Model 29. I’m fairly sure there is no such thing. It looks like a Model 18. But I can’t get the seller to answer any questions. It amazes me how lazy people are, in this bad economy. Nobody at Practicalmachinist had any input, but I did notice Jdunmyer over there!
Unfortunately, I got to reading about machining. That was a mistake. I managed to get machining out of my system a year or two ago, and last night I found myself looking at small mills and lathes again.
Fortunately, I was saved by the photos of people’s machining projects. It appears that almost nobody does anything with machine tools except for making models of engines. I’m sure this is lots of fun, but what if you don’t want to make engines? I thought machine tools would be fun for a more general purpose. I figured I could use them to make stuff I designed, but since almost nobody else does that, I assume it must be difficult.
Once again, I checked out local machining courses, and they do not exist. I can drive to the next county five times a week in the morning–for 14 months–but other than that, there is nothing out there.
So I think I can put machine tools out of my mind for a while. Although I did create a Smartflix account, just in case.
The disease never goes away completely. It just goes into remission.
January 14th, 2009 at 11:29 AM
Believe it or not I think that YOU might be smart enough to figure basic lathe work out on your own with a good book. Milling’s a little more complicated with the extra axis but it can also be had.
Tool speed and feed rate, tool speed and feed rate…
Most people take a class in order to have access to the equipment instead of buying it because they want to go to work somewhere as an apprentice machinist, or they’re like me in engineering school where I thought that if I was going to design it and demand that someone else build it that just studying it in a book wasn’t good enough–so I took a couple of classes at the local “polytechnic institute” at night.
The main thing the instructors did is point you toward the book and the materials you had bought in the book store (yes, they sold you metal stock and raw casting “kits” in the campus bookstore) and made sure you didn’t kill yourself or the guy standing at the next machine with his back to you.
Like most colleges, the teacher did as little as was possible and you basically got it on your own or you didn’t because you had to make the acme threaded jack stand or the machinist vice or whatever and they graded you on the final results.
You might have to go back the the bookstore for spare stock once or twice, but you learned. What pissed me off was that after they graded your masterpiece they took a 1/8″ drill and bored a shallow hole in every single piece of your work to keep you from selling it to another student coming through behind you.
January 14th, 2009 at 12:49 PM
Heh. I guess mine is in remission right now. I have a 6 in Atlas, and a Taiwan mini (a good deal/first caller on Craigslist that I couldn’t pass up: try $125 …the seller’s next door neighbor gave it to him, and he didn’t know anything about it, but as he’d received about 100 calls by the time I picked it up, he was already thinking maybe he’d priced it a little low).
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Neither of which I know jack about. Let alone what I’m supposed to do to make stuff.
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…on my to-do list though! So: in remission, yes.
January 14th, 2009 at 1:09 PM
I have had a mill in my garage for 14 years now. I use it as a drill press mostly. What are you going to machine, as a practical matter, for around the house, if not as a hobby? I machine stuff I’ve designed for work regularly. Industrial stuff.
January 14th, 2009 at 1:59 PM
I figured I would invent stuff and then make it.
January 14th, 2009 at 2:14 PM
That’s exactly what I intend to do, Steve. Actually, I’ve got a design (worked out on paper) for an “infinitely variable bicycle transmission” that is both light, and small (lighter and smaller than the usual derailleur system).
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Which – supposedly, according to some very respected bicycle fanatics (and an industry engineer or too) – is an impossibility. Glad I designed it before I knew that.
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It sure looks good on paper though (I used an ancient CAD/drawing program to do the original).
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I bought the Atlas to build that, in particular (didn’t want to farm it out: been through a patent process before, and got roybally screwed, so I trust no one at this point).
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Didn’t realize quite how *much* you had to know to do stuff on a lathe. Or how expensive the tooling was …nor how much tooling you needed (I’m still not there yet). At this point, I realize that I’m probably going to need a mill too. More skills. Sigh. It never ends.
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But for now: “in remission” about sums it up.
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January 14th, 2009 at 5:17 PM
Steve, Davis, I was looking for a free Autocad compliant viewer/drafting program for when I brought work home (and left the laptop) and found Solid Edge 2D from Siemens. http://www.plm.automation.siemens.com/en_us/products/velocity/solidedge/free2d/index.shtml
This is at least as good as Autocad 2008 LT as far as I can see. With great tutorials.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:32 PM
Hey,
Travis from SmartFlix here.
I started SmartFlix because I was interested in learning metalworking (for gunsmithing, actually). I’ve got a Sherline and an Atlas horizontal mill which I bought used for a song and plan on setting up this weekend, or next, if I get a chance.
Based on my own interest in metalworking and customer feedback, I recently (as in, last week) set up Sherline University. It’s actually not a perfect name – “small milling and lathe university” would be a bit better.
I’m concentrating my home video watching on wood turning and wood carving these days, but as soon as my plate grows empty I’ll be diving back into the metalworking videos.
January 14th, 2009 at 6:51 PM
Although I’m into building model engines, there’s other things you can do with machine tools. Take a look at:
http://www.duke.edu/~jwc13/beerlauncher.html
and the video:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/445498/robotic_beer_launching_refrigerator/
A lathe is pretty cheap to get tooled up, but not a milling machine. On the latter, you will probably spend as much or more on tooling than on the machine itself. However, it’s all worth it, if you’re a Tool Guy.
Steve,
If you liked the PM board, you’ll love the Home Shop Machinist BBS at:
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/
There’s folks there with skills ranging from beginner to some REALLY sharp cookies. And, they’re very helpful.
January 15th, 2009 at 3:52 AM
RE: Industrial sounding names for el cheapo Chinese machine tools. Be picky about drill presses with names like Ohio Forge, Central Forge, General Machine and yes, Buffalo Forge. Those are names used on some very poorly made Chinese machine tools, especially drill presses and mill/drills. Bad castings, very poor machining and used bearings. The prices and paint jobs are attractive but the tools aren’t even good as scrap.
Gerry N.
January 15th, 2009 at 4:34 PM
Thanks Ed! I downloaded the CAD program, and I’ll check it out. Also thanks to JD and Travis for their handy links.