Up the River Without a Paddle
April 28th, 2009God Bless the Bureaucrats
I got absolutely nothing done today, with regard to the lathe. I had to go with my father to bring his boat home from the yard. The bridge Nazis have decided Miami’s Brickell Avenue bridge will now open and close based on random readings from a plethysmograph attached to the bridgetender’s goiter, so the big signs on the side of the bridge, which used to have some relationship to the bridge schedule, are now purely ornamental. The signs say the bridge stays down between 4:30 and 6:00 p.m., so it should open on demand before 4:30, but at 3:05, the genius in the tower told us she felt like having an opening at 3:30, so we had to wait. While she watched Oprah. I guess.
I sat there on the flybridge trying to figure out what the purpose of the bizarre new policy was. Then it hit me: I’ll bet it’s GREEN. It takes a lot of juice to open a drawbridge. I’ll bet some pea-brain in the city government decided to save forty dollars a week by holding up traffic.
Of course, you have to use your boat’s motors to fight the current and wind while you sit there waiting, and if you add up all the boats that get stuck, that takes more energy than the policy saves. And then there’s the obvious cost in lost man-hours. The Miami River is very important to commercial boat traffic, and they need to get in and out in a timely manner. So the green hypothesis doesn’t make any sense at all.
That’s why it’s probably true. None of this green crap is correct. “Recycled” newspapers go to the dump. There is no such thing as global warming. “Green” jobs kill regular jobs. It’s all a feel-good fantasy.
I guess I shouldn’t be this irritated about something I merely guessed at.
I’m rooting around on Google, and it looks like the Coast Guard is in charge of the bridges. That explains everything. The Coast Guard dances for the Obamessiah, so maybe some of his “progressive” foolishness has trickled down and infected the bridge schedule.
I took the side cover off the lathe and looked the gears over. I can’t see anything missing. The lathe was going “tonk tonk tonk” when it ran, and someone told me it could be a missing gear tooth, so I had to look. It turns out the lathe only makes this sound with the chuck attached. I’m thinking maybe some filth between the spindle and chuck kept it from seating tightly, so it rocks a little and makes noise. Or there could be a loose part in the chuck. Or I don’t know how to seat the chuck. I used the spanner wrench that came with the lathe, but I was only guessing.
The chuck spins on, so you have to wonder what happens when you use the lathe in the direction that unspins the chuck. It has to be fun when that hunk of steel flies off at 1800 RPM with a workpiece attached to it. It weighs maybe 30 pounds. My guess is that a smart lathe operator never operates the lathe in this mode unless held at gunpoint. Or because his federal-employee boss tells him Obama Almighty says counterclockwise is green and diverse.
Is this bad engineering at its worst, or is there some way to lock the chuck on the spindle? I’ll try to find out.
I think the bearings on the motor shafts may be giving out. Something down there doesn’t sound healthy. I assume they’re reasonably cheap, since they’re on the cheap side of the drive train. The precision stuff is up top. I’ll look them over when I replace the motor. I’ll bet it’s some kind of standard bearing you can buy from MSC.
While I was at the boatyard, I asked the owner if he knew of anyone up there who had bits of appetizing scrap suitable for scrounging by a metalworking hobbyist. He told me to leave my number with the receptionist. I don’t know what types of round stock they use, except for aluminum tubing. Propeller shops make a lot of custom shafts from stainless, so they have to end up with lots of short scraps, but this yard doesn’t do that type of work. I think Miami Propeller is the only place around here.
There are a lot of stainless “Aquamet” scraps on Ebay. I have a hunch that’s propeller-shaft material. It sure sounds like it. “Aqua.” I looked this stuff up on the web, and it sounds like fine metal. Maybe I could make interesting kitchen tools from it.
I once threw out a four-foot long, three-inch thick shaft stub. I feel pretty bad about that now. But you can’t keep crap like that lying around, on the assumption that one day you might go insane and buy a lathe.
I’m pooped and the birds are squawking. I better deal with them.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:48 PM
Don’t run it backwards. Newer lathes have cam-loc studs and chucks may be changed quickly and run in either direction. One reason for buying a modern machine.
Going “tonk, tonk, tonk” when the chuck is spinning is unsettling. You can tell by watching if the chuck is wobbling or running out. Certainly chucking up some rod and using a DTI will tell you. Do you have anything chucked up when you are doing this? If you tighten the jaws down on something, that might eliminate something loose, though I can’t think of what that might be.
Another thought might be that your spindle bearings are shot, and the whole mess is banging back and forth on a microscopic scale. That would be unfortunate.
I would recommend against getting stainless prop shafts to practice turning. That would be very frustrating. And stay away from cold rolled steel (1018) for a while. It is challenging to get a nice finish. And stay away from brass as well, as it wants to hog unless your toolbits have no top rake. Get nice aluminum, easy to work, beautiful finish, for learning. If you want to practice on steel, get some 12L14 leaded steel which machines beautifully as well. Caution, it is not very corrosion resistant. Those will be good starter materials to learn the basics. Or, if you like jumping into the deep end, try single point threading W-1 tool steel. 😉
Oh, and you can buy small pieces of metal stock from Online Metals for reasonable prices.
Have fun!
April 28th, 2009 at 8:57 PM
Out here we used to have the Boeing Surplus yard. You could buy all kinds of groovy stuff used to make aircraft. Tons of aluminum, steel even titanium. Milling bits, tools, micrometers, electronic components, you name it, they had it.
For some damn reason they closed it down after thirty years…broke my heart.
April 28th, 2009 at 8:59 PM
That damn reason was Ebay, if Boeing’s listings there are any indication.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:33 PM
Green, that reminds me to check to see how many environmental engineers I have on hooks dangling in my caustic soda tanks.
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It causes problems if I get too many at once because of the inventory. The caustic. Environmental engineers have a fairly high level of displacement in caustic soda and it throws off the inventory.
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Just so you know.
April 28th, 2009 at 9:48 PM
Check out Simmon’s Metals on 72nd Avenue. They’ve been there for about fifty years and have a bunch of interesting stuff. They used to buy surplus aircraft parts and resell them for scrap. You never knew what you would find there. Now they mostly sell new metal but it’s still fun. Take cash and don’t ask for a receipt. Miami Propeller probably does have short pieces but I’m sure they sell them to the scrap metal places on North River Drive.
Which yard did your Dad use and was he pleased with the work?
April 29th, 2009 at 11:12 AM
If you like the “plethysmograph attached to the bridgetender’s goiter”, you might be interested in my invention–the “Rogers Pulse Doppler Laser Nippleometer” which is designed to indirectly measure ambient temperature by bouncing a laser beam off random women’s body parts…
April 29th, 2009 at 11:21 AM
the threads don’t drive the chuck, the taper does. That type of spindle nose is called an “American long taper with drawnut”. most also have keys. Properly installed they cannot unscrew when run in reverse. here’s some useful info:
http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/page9.html
April 29th, 2009 at 12:47 PM
You’re right, Og. Between the time that I used the lathe and the time I wrote this message, I forgot that the collar on the spindle, and not the chuck, was the part that spun.
April 29th, 2009 at 1:10 PM
its a valid concern to have and its good to be cautious. does your taper have a key or no?
April 29th, 2009 at 1:53 PM
It does indeed have a key.
April 29th, 2009 at 2:28 PM
“The bridge Nazis have decided Miami’s Brickell Avenue bridge will now open and close based on random readings from a plethysmograph attached to the bridgetender’s goiter”
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In other words, modern scientific principles. Surely there must be a “consensus” in there somewhere.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:46 PM
that’s great. that means this is a quick change chuck, and can be swapped (relatively) quickly to another chuck. The taper is very standard and you can buy backplates for that long American taper spindle nose and put just about any chuck on it you want.
April 29th, 2009 at 3:55 PM
In addition to Simmons, C & R metals (N. River drive between 29 and 30 th ave) are “artist friendly” and will sell you very small pieces of metal. You could buy some Al and some CRS.
I’ve not turned Aquamet but have other work hardening SS, and it can be a real bear.
April 29th, 2009 at 4:14 PM
There is some kind of back plate out there. I think it has holes for two bolts, but I’m too tired to look.
April 29th, 2009 at 7:31 PM
You should remove the chuck and CLEAN both the spindle and the chuck’s tapers. NO bits of anything dare be in there. Then, install the chuck carefully and be sure it seats on the taper and that the locknut is tight. I don’t think you need to get carried away with tightness, but it daresn’t be loose, either.
The scrapyard that I frequent is near Lake Erie and they get a lot of old propeller shafts coming in; most are brass. I’ve bought a lot of pieces of brass prop shaft, and it’s great to work with, plus make very pretty parts. BillP is correct that you don’t want to use SS for your first efforts. Some of it machines well, but some of it is horrible; you’ll soon learn what “work hardening” means.
Those external gears should be oiled, never greased. Grease tends to hold the machining swarf and eventually wrecks the gears. Very few points on a lathe should be greased, most use oil. Get a gallon of Way Oil from Enco to use on the ways. Check the wipers on the carriage, in fact just replace them now.
If you want to check the spindle bearings, use a 2 X 4 to pry under the chuck with your dial indicator resting on the top of the chuck. You should see NO movement on the indicator, certainly no more than 1 or 2 thousandths.
You said that the seller is sending you a replacement motor that’s 2 Hp, to replace the 1 Hp that’s presently fitted. I can’t find my reference book at the moment to check frame sizes. If those motors have different frames, you might not be able to simply exchange them, as the mounting holes, shaft height, and shaft sizes will be different. It can be made to work, and would probably be trivial for me, but might be more of a problem for you. (It’s hard to bore the pulley when it has to run the lathe it’s to be used on) OTOH: a 2Hp 3-phase motor might well have the same frame as a 1Hp 1-phase unit.
If you remove the belts from the driveline, you can check the bearings on the countershaft. It wouldn’t be surprising if they’re bad, and you’re correct that they’re cheap and easily changed. If the shaft is OK.
Scrapyards are a good source for material, as are fabrication shops. The latter often have an area where they store stuff that’s too small for most jobs but too good to throw away. My local fab shop sells that stuff for about $.50/#. Our scrapyard gets $.20/# for steel, $.80/# for aluminum, and $1.50/# for brass. Those prices are down a bunch from last Summer. If you find such a source and they’re decent folks, taking donuts for the crew is a nice gesture that will usually be repaid.
It seems like you’re going through some hassles with this machine and the vendor, but you’re getting an education that you probably wouldn’t have with a new machine. It might sound like BS, but you’ll be a better man for having endured it, you’ll know a LOT more about your machine.
April 29th, 2009 at 8:32 PM
the tonk tong noise is probaby th jaws of the chuck being thrown around by centrifugal force. chuck a bolt up in them or something and see if they still rattle.
April 29th, 2009 at 9:31 PM
The tonking noise, and a lot of other noise, went away when I took off the housing and lubed the machine. It was already oiled and greased, but there was a definite change.
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I’m afraid to test the spindle bearing, now that everything else looks good. But I will.
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The motor should not be a problem. It came from a sister model with the same specs.
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Thanks for all that information.
April 29th, 2009 at 10:04 PM
The spindle bearing checks out. I have no bases, so I had to use a rubber band to attach it to a gooseneck thing with welding magnets on each end. Thanks for the tip.
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I made a mistake, buying only a pint of Vactra. I somehow had the idea that only the ways used it. But I’ll be visiting Enco anyway.
April 30th, 2009 at 8:24 AM
Steve,
If you have no mag base for an indicator, buy the NOGA outfit. Enco carries them, in fact I think it’s in the latest sale flyer.
Good to hear that the spindle bearings are OK.
Og has the right idea: chuck up something to take up the slack in the jaws, then check for clunks & rattles.
May 6th, 2009 at 10:46 PM
Your Bridge Nazis remind me of our Sidewalk SS Occifers…all over the Little Town Next Door to Nowhere there are four or five public transportation department employees leaning on shovels watching another work to replace one square of the sidewalk lining a block; which of course requires four or five more employees leaning on the back of a truck and watching over another working to direct traffic, because cars need to stay at least 25 feet from the sidewalk.