Mill Ramifications
May 27th, 2009There is no Cheap Fun
First thing: can anyone tell me how to dissolve aluminum galling?
My dad has a helm seat on his boat. The pedestal is a stainless pipe. There is a footrest attached with an aluminum collar. The collar has galled to the pipe. I put Kroil on it last night, and I applied a 3-foot pipe wrench today. Nothing happened.
I think he needs a new footrest.
I was going to finish insulating the garage today, but the defective kit I received put an end to that plan. I’m trying to figure out to do about my desperate need for a milling machine.
A local company will put the mill I want on my driveway for $150. They sell the mill, and they arrange the shipping. If they damage it, they still own it, and I can use small claims court to force them to give me my money back. That’s a very good deal. And no headaches. My only challenge, if you can call it that, will be to rent an engine hoist and move the mill into the garage.
Here is the problem. I wasn’t able to get much information from these people about the machine itself. An out-of-state dealer volunteered to educate me. He has been extremely helpful. I’d rather buy from him, but he says he can’t match the liftgate delivery. He says a mill is too big for a liftgate, and that the other company is full of it.
I located a rigger and asked for a quote, to bring the mill from the terminal and put it in the garage. Haven’t heard from them yet.
Last night I saw a problem with this idea. I figured the riggers would not be responsible for damage, so I’d have to eat the cost if they destroyed the mill. That is too big a risk to take. But now people are telling me riggers have to carry insurance for this kind of thing.
Someone else recommended renting a forklift. But I’ve never used one, and shippers have a way of showing up several days late, after your rented forklift has been taken back to the lot and you have been charged for it. I don’t want to get screwed on the rental, and I am not eager to learn how to use a forklift by moving an expensive machine with it, at my own risk.
The forklift is not a good idea.
I’m kind of inclined to tell the out of state guy, “Sorry, but this is just too messy.” He sent me several long and helpful emails, and I would like to reward him with my business, but this is turning out to be a real pain.
Last night I started thinking about what a major undertaking this was, and I thought of the pretty and functional machining I had seen in mini-mill videos, and I asked myself once again if a real mill was a good idea. So I started checking out smaller toys, like Rong Fus. It’s ridiculous. The cost is maybe 65% of a real mill’s price. A big mill/drill is not cheap. And to get that 35% discount, you have to give up a huge amount of potential. There are things you won’t be able to do, or which will take a lot longer.
The Millrite is still possible, and it’s cheaper, but although it looks very clean, I would not really know if it was sound until I had used it for a while. By that time, it would be too late to return it, and getting anything major fixed would be an impossibility.
I guess a big mill is the better option. Maximum capacity and versatility, and the cost is not that far from the cost of a mill/drill. And there is virtually no possibility that I would ever want to upgrade.
Now, if I could just luck into about a thousand pounds of free tooling.
May 27th, 2009 at 1:56 PM
Forklifts are easier to use than a handtruck. But there are places that will send you a forklift with a driver for peanuts. Ever seen those guys slinging shingles and lumber off a truck with a forklift? Specify a delivery company with one of those trucks.
Else have them deliver the mill, throw a tarp over it, order your forklift. Practice moving around an empty skid. Forklifts don’t change behavior with a full skid. Read an internet tutorial.
-XC
May 27th, 2009 at 2:39 PM
Forklifts are actually easy to operate for someone who is careful and not rushing (I had no problems lifting and placing stuff within a half inch of where I wanted it 16′ in the air).
If you had a Bobcat, you would not need to worry about renting…
May 27th, 2009 at 2:49 PM
How do I get the mill off the truck with no forklift?
May 27th, 2009 at 3:23 PM
Why not take the “free shipping” drop off in your driveway and befor it arrives prefab a base with castors similar to what this guy did…
http://igor.chudov.com/projects/My-Bridgeport-Mill/Mobile-Bridgeport-Mill-Base-On-Casters/
Then simply roll it into place in your garage using a come-along or whatever to get it over the bumps and humps?
If it were me I’d also add four large “jack screws” with swivel bases which you could turn into place to lock the mill down to the floor under it’s own weight once postioned and squared up.
Then drill two or four holes in the concrete and install expansion anchors aligned with the base mounting holes on the Mill frame and lock it all down to the floor if you’re afraid you’re going to be machining Boeing 747 landing gear parts or cutting Kryptonite with high feed rates.
May 27th, 2009 at 3:24 PM
If I go for the $150 liftgate, I have no worries at all. I just have to find a hoist that will get the mill into the garage. But I would not be able to buy from the guy who helped me.
May 27th, 2009 at 3:50 PM
a wrecker will be able to lift a mill using web straps. cheaper than riggers (regroes)
May 27th, 2009 at 3:52 PM
On your galling problem: no guarantees on this idea, but it’s cheap and won’t harm anything if it fails. Try packing the joint in dry ice for a while, and see if the differential expansion breaks the existing fusion.
May 27th, 2009 at 3:55 PM
First Question: Do you mean dissimilar metal galvanic corrosion? The white fluffy kind? That is what I would expect from an aluminum collar on stainless in a salt environment. Galling is friction welding and tearing between two metal surfaces. Anyway, when aluminum oxide is formed by the galvanic couple, it occupies a larger volume, usually locking the part up until it is so far gone there is nothing left. Nitric or sulfuric acids will do the trick. Coke has been suggested in the past but I don’t think it works well. You might try a torch to expand the aluminum collar, being careful not to melt the aluminum. Your best bet it to use a small cutoff wheel on a Dremel tool and split the collar in two places and throw it away.
Second Question: Focus on your primary goal here, which is to get the best mill for the money. Remember the Clausing problems. Pick the best mill, then figure out how to get it there. You haven’t said what mill it is, so I don’t know what it weighs. I have an Alliant 1054, and it weighs 2800 lbs. That is a whole lot for a lift gate, which is usually rated about 2500 pounds and tends to sag to the rear when loaded. The mill is a very top heavy piece of equipment, and falling off the gate is a real possibility. Not your problem, you say? You’ll still have to get it into the garage. If your drive way is sloped it could be exciting.
When I bought my mill, I bought it used from the machinist who did the work for my company and was retiring. We rolled it on half inch steel rods out of his shop onto a ramp, then winched it up the ramp onto a low trailer, and tied it down. We did the reverse to unload it. When I moved it with a forklift to a different building, I put timbers on the forks and picked it up on either side of the ram dovetail, and put it exactly where I needed it. Easy.
My advice, hire a good rigger. They will come, take it off the truck, and put it exactly where you want it, off the skid. They will be bonded and insured, and will make it look easy.
Regarding mill/drills- avoid them like the plague! We have one. It sucks. Way too much money for way too little.
May 27th, 2009 at 5:57 PM
I have always heard it referred to as galling, but what it is, is oxidation. A torch has been recommended to me by more than one person, so I’ll give it a shot.
.
As for picking out the best mill, I did that. Problem is, two different people sell it!
May 27th, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Bill is right about moving a mill on rollers/pipes. If your driveway is paved w/ashpalt, have the machine set down onto pipe rollers that are on either plywood or a couple of 2X8 planks. Use 2″ pipe that’s 6 or 8 inches longer than the mill base is wide. If the drive is concrete, no wood will be required. Any kind of a “step” or obstruction will be a problem, but can be worked around with some forethought. Once it’s inside the garage, 1″ diameter rollers are plenty big enough, and the machine will roll with just an easy push.
Or, do as Bill suggests and simply hire a rigger. If coordinating the rigger and the delivery guy seems problematic, have the mill delivered to the rigger’s shop and have the rigger deliver it from there. I wouldn’t think it’d cost a lot extra, as they have to use some sort of truck to bring their forklift anyway.
My buddy brought his mill home either on a trailer or in a p/u truck and had a fella unload it with a wrecker. It worked out OK, but they let the mill swing a bit and they broke the one-shot oiler reservoir against something.
May 27th, 2009 at 7:35 PM
My dad taught me to drive a forklift when I was about 10. If a 10 year-old girl can do it, so can you.
May 27th, 2009 at 8:27 PM
I know you will make the right decision.
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.Just so you know.
May 29th, 2009 at 9:07 AM
Sodium Hydroxide (Lye) will disolve aluminum well and do nothing to the stainless. Ventilate well.