More Lathe Fun
April 25th, 2009Never Pay by Check
My lathe troubles have abated to some extent.
I ordered a Clausing 5914 lathe from an out of state dealer. Every piece of email correspondence from the order onward had “Clausing 5914″ in it, as did the invoice. A Clausing 5936 is what I ended up with. It’s basically the same lathe, but it’s my understanding that it has a 1 HP motor instead of 2 HP, and it has step pulleys instead of a vari-speed drive. I spent $125 more than I had to on the VFD, because I didn’t know I was receiving a smaller motor.
The seller claims I knew I was getting a 5936 because he sent me a photo of the lathe. The photo doesn’t show the model number, and I wasn’t able to tell the difference between these two models by looking at a photo. It’s hard to see how he could be telling the truth, unless he has some kind of problem with his mind or his memory. He has health issues; maybe they interfere with his ability to keep up with orders.
He says this is a better lathe. Maybe that’s true, but it sure looks like he knew I wanted a 5914. He cut $400 off the price without telling me; the 5936 was more expensive, and I sent a check for the price of the 5914, and he never said anything about it.
I can go to small claims court and win. He’s subject to Florida jurisdiction because of his website. But suing people unnecessarily is not compatible with my beliefs. I believe God is real, and he makes things right better than any court could. I wouldn’t buy anything from this guy again, but I’m not planning to go on a crusade to get even. I would like to part with him on friendly terms and get on with my life.
Maybe he seriously believed what he did was ethical, and maybe I ended up getting something better than what I ordered, but this is not acceptable business practice. If this had happened with Grizzly, they would have sent a truck, picked up the machine, apologized profusely, and either refunded all my money or supplied a new machine. No expense to me.
He’s offering a replacement motor and a replacement for the broken casting. I should take him up on those.
I also bought a set of micrometers from him. They’re NSK carbide mikes. I got a set of 3, 0″-3”, new old stock. But they’re very old. The grease inside them has hardened into varnish, and only one of them is usable. I tried Kroil on the two frozen mikes, but so far, no luck. He says he’ll take them back. That’s good, but I wish they had worked. They would have been a great deal. I paid $45.
I’m trying to find other micrometers. It looks like I found something interesting. There is a company called Scherr that makes good measuring tools, and they don’t get the same prices big names get. I found some nice new Scherr micrometers on Ebay. I may get them to replace the NSKs. The biggest one is a left-hand mike. I’m not sure what difference that makes. I assume it means it’s a mirror opposite of a right-hand mike. Surely I can use a mike just as well with my left hand. I’ll end up paying twice as much, but these are better tools, and they may actually work.
I’ve been trying to get the grease off the lathe. I know a machine tool will always have a certain amount of grime on it, but I want it clean enough so I can touch it without blackening my hands and clothes. It has something resembling congealed cosmoline on it. Denatured alcohol seems to take it off.
The chuck is not great. It has one-piece jaws, and it’s not adjustable. I was going to see if the seller had any nice used chucks for the lathe, but I think you can guess what happened to that plan. God only knows what he would send me.
I’m somewhat discouraged, because I trusted this man’s reputation, and things went poorly. I’ve been talking to another dealer with a good reputation, about a couple of old milling machines, but now I wonder if a good reputation is worth anything. Everybody I checked said the lathe seller was a saint.
Caveat emptor. Every deal can’t be a good experience.
April 25th, 2009 at 5:02 PM
Steve:
Phone up your saintly lathe dealer and explain to him that you really want what you ordered and not what was received, see how things can be worked out. Inform him of your patience and belief in god, but that small claims and a bentnose cousin named Vinnie are also options. He may see reason. I guess I missed how far away from you the fellow is, but if in drving distance it might be worth hauling the old one back and getting the correct one with a discount to equal fuel and wear and tear?
April 25th, 2009 at 5:50 PM
The fellow lied to you. What else do you think he might have lied about?Send it back and buy the Grizzly we told you to buy. You’ll get a nice machine and they will stand by it.
A lathe with half the horsepower, step pulleys, and other missing features is markedly inferior to the one you thought you were buying. This is sort of a bait and switch. Send it back at his expense and threaten to sue him. If the invoice said 5914 that is what you should get. And if the pic he sent you was really the 5936, he probably doesn’t have a 5914 to sell. Or it is such terrible condition he is afraid to send you a picture. You have been swindled.
Bill
April 25th, 2009 at 6:07 PM
The inconvenience of poor quality lingers long after the thrill of a bargain is forgotten. Seems to me the lesson here is that for people that can afford it they should stick to only buying new products in areas where they have no knowledge of the item or field based on actual experience and use. Like if I was looking for a nuclear reactor I think I’d spring for a new GE model rather than a rebuilt Russian version. If you can afford new rather than used why buy someone else’s troubles? Did you buy a used piano, a used Harley, a used Thunderbird? Just saying is all.
April 25th, 2009 at 6:55 PM
There was a recent thread on mikes on the HSM BBS that will be of interest to you. I think it was something like “micrometer feel” in the Subject line. Here, I found it for you: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=34399&highlight=micrometer+feel
FWIW: I’ve had old mikes that were gummed up. I took ’em apart by simply unscrewing the screw/thimble from the frame. Then, sprayed both the screw and frame threads with BrakeKleen to remove all the gummed up oil/grease. Lube’d them with Starrett Tool & Instrument Oil. All was good afterward. Make sure to check zero adjustment when you’re done.
April 25th, 2009 at 7:36 PM
Bob, all sorts of people who should know better than I recommend this seller.
April 25th, 2009 at 7:38 PM
Thanks for the advice about the mikes, Jim. I can’t see how to get them apart. I can take the thimbles off and remove a couple more parts, but I can’t get the shafts out, probably because they’re glued to the other parts with grease that has turned into varnish.
I’m nervous about using brake cleaner because I don’t think this guy will accept a return if the finish is eaten off the mikes or there is other damage, and I don’t know what brake cleaner may do to them. I’m inclined to send these junkers back and get the nice Scherr mikes.
April 25th, 2009 at 8:38 PM
LOL, yeah, lots of people recommended B. Hussein Obama too. Good luck, maybe he’ll make it right, certainly you’ll learn more about his good recommendations as you try to iron out the dispute. However, to me, it sounds like he has already decided to argue rather than honor his terms. As he is evidently experienced at the business he knows you have a very weak to non-existant bargaining position. His solution to your disatisfaction will be to leave you off his customer recommendation list. Is there any easy way to search for a history of litigation against him? If he is on the shady side and has been dealing in big ticket items for some time then somewhere along the way other people have gotten lawyers involved.
April 26th, 2009 at 8:37 AM
Steve,
Maybe these mikes are different than the ones I’ve fooled with. With mine, I simply unscrewed the thimble way past “full scale” and the screw came right out. I didn’t use the BrakeKleen anywhere except on the threads.
RE: the chuck: did you get both sets of jaws? Larger/better 3-jaw chucks have 2-piece jaws so you can grip larger or smaller pieces. Smaller/cheaper chucks have 2 sets of jaws that must be totally removed in order to change them. I’ve had/have both, and don’t see a particular advantage to either, the one-piece jaws are faster to change than the 2-piece jobs. The latter have the capability of having the outer part replaced with soft jaws, but I’ve personally never had the need.
IMO, the chuck is useless without having both sets of jaws. Note that there’s a specific procedure for installing jaws.
April 26th, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Jim, right now I am soaking one of the mikes in rubbing alcohol, which seemed to dissolve the varnish quickly when I applied it where the varnish was easily reached. If that doesn’t work, I quit.
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I got two sets of jaws with the chuck. I want the two-piece jaws that are individually adjustable, though. The seller has a bunch, but he might send me a 4-jawed chuck, or a box of jawbreakers, or the VHS version of Jaws 3. Time for Ebay.
April 26th, 2009 at 2:43 PM
Steve,
If you got both sets of jaws for your 3-jaw chuck, I’d try to beat the seller out of a 4-jaw for your machine. You WILL need it eventually, and by “eventually”, I mean fairly soon.
April 27th, 2009 at 8:47 AM
Steve,
If the alcohol doesn’t penetrate and remove the varnish see if you can get some D limonene. Mixed with a little detergent it should take the varnish right off without harming the finish itself.
April 27th, 2009 at 10:55 AM
Forget small claims court, get the US Postal Inspectors involved. You sent the payment via the USPS, so they have jurisdiction. Those guys do not play softball.
I’ve personally had them tell a company to make something right (it was a few hundred customers, not just me) or they would lose their mail privileges. Imagine what that would do to a business. No incoming mail, no outgoing mail. Trip to the big house if you try to get around the restriction.
Seriously, though, they have always been very helpful and very persuasive to the seller the few times I’ve gotten them involved.
April 27th, 2009 at 11:08 AM
I’m not into suits either Steve. So there’s that.
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My experience with these kind of tool deals gone bad though, is that you’re never going to be quite happy with that lathe. And since it’s also a “learning tool”, that compounds the problem. Let’s alleviate that potential issue right now.
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I know the old saw about “buying the best” you can of a tool. But. I’ve also learned over time and in many subjects, that sometimes you know so little, that chalking up the cost to spending a bit on “education” is a good idea too.
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When the cost of “the best” is pretty significant – and especially when there’s also a significant learning component involved – it can be just as smart to buy cheaper/lesser stuff until you develop some smarts (i.e., about that subject or whatever) yourself.
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What I’m saying is: chalk this one up as a “learning tool”, and promise yourself that you’ll sell it WHEN (and/or if) you’ve learned enough to really know the tool to pick out a replacement based upon your own experience.
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Sure, you’ll “lose” money on the deal …but only if you don’t consider the value of the education from that [still only perhaps] less than desirable tool [drubbing] you received. And any residual dissatisfaction will be far less a barrier to getting some adequate value out of the whole of the experience.
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And. Do the rest of the tool world a favour. Let us know that guy’s name & website: go on the list-serves, etc., and tell the simple unembellished facts. Spread your experience around: it could be valuable knowledge for another noob’ (and also: if that guy reads it, and he probably will, he may change HIS ways too …which would be a very good thing, as he ain’t exactly puttin’ jewels on his crown in heaven by doing stuff like this). Dude: I really pay attention to the well-written negatives. Don’t you?
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This TOO is a Christian thing to do.
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